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Hands-On Look At the BlackBerry Storm 2

CmdrTaco posted more than 4 years ago | from the running-scared dept.

Blackberry 213

Barence writes "PC Pro has had time to play with the new BlackBerry Storm 2, and came away impressed. The new touch system garners the most praise, doing away with the mechanical click screen of the original Storm — the new screen gives a kind of localised haptic feedback which 'feels just like clicking a button.' The phone, announced today, also includes Wi-Fi, BlackBerry OS 5, and increased storage, so it's looking an enticing prospect. After the disappointment of the Palm Pre, could this be the smartphone to beat?"

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213 comments

First Post (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29757555)

Storm this.

Disappointment of the Palm Pre? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29757605)

It hardly seems like a disappointment based on the amount and tone of coverage I've seen of the Pre. I haven't seen much about the Pre in a business environment (read: syncing to Exchange etc) but it seems great otherwise.

Re:Disappointment of the Palm Pre? (4, Informative)

giverson (532542) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757677)

Yeah, I don't get that. I absolutely love my Pre. And to answer your question, Exchange syncing works great.

Re:Disappointment of the Palm Pre? (1, Interesting)

NiteShaed (315799) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757839)

I'll second that, and I also appreciate being able to connect to the wireless network at my office with it (WPA Enterprise), which nobody's managed to do yet with an iPhone/iPod Touch.......

Now, hopefully the apps will start to flow a little faster. There are some nice ones out now, and more every day, but I particularly would like to see the Sirius/XM player, Skype, and eReader come out soon.

Re:Disappointment of the Palm Pre? (1, Informative)

Chabil Ha' (875116) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757909)

I'll second that, and I also appreciate being able to connect to the wireless network at my office with it (WPA Enterprise), which nobody's managed to do yet with an iPhone/iPod Touch.

Pardon me? Nobody? This has been a feature since iPhone/iPod OS 2.0 came out and I have been running it ever since then.

Re:Disappointment of the Palm Pre? (0, Troll)

NiteShaed (315799) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757979)

Pardon me? Nobody? This has been a feature since iPhone/iPod OS 2.0 came out and I have been running it ever since then.

I'm going to guess you don't work at my office then. Maybe it's something specific to how the network is set up, I couldn't say, but the Pres in the office work fine, none of the iPhones/iPod Touches do.

Re:Disappointment of the Palm Pre? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29759331)

Anti-Apple zealot in IT that needs to be fired for taking his zealotry into the workplace?

Clarification (1, Informative)

NiteShaed (315799) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758143)

When I say above "being able to connect to the wireless network at my office with it (WPA Enterprise), which nobody's managed to do yet with an iPhone/iPod Touch", I'm talking about a specific network (at my office), not all WPA Enterprise networks. For whatever reason, a Pre can connect with no problem, but iPhones/iPod Touches do not. Oddly, OSX laptops connect just fine as well, so I was surprised when other Apple products had trouble.

Re:Disappointment of the Palm Pre? (2, Insightful)

Linker3000 (626634) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758229)

It amuses me when users that opt for technology with a fair degree of vendor lock-in, feature control (or plain, simple pose/fanboi value) 'look forward' to features that the rest of us have had for years.

I have an HTC Rhodium (Touch Pro 2) and HTC have done a good job to hide the abomination that is Windows Mobile with a fairly decent (but not perfect) touch interface, wireless works, I have VNC, PockeTTY and Remote Desktop support loaded (for 'emergency support'), I am about to load up a VoIP app (SJPhone) and I can browse networks & print. TomTom satnav's on and I have just installed a Spanish-English dictionary for a holiday next week. The developer community (eg: xda-developer) is very strong so there are lots of commercial, free and shareware tools and apps available and, well, it's a decent phone too!

Re:Disappointment of the Palm Pre? (0, Redundant)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758993)

Same here with a Touch Diamond running (sadly) WinMo. All free software too. 2 factor authenticated connections to home desktops in both Windows and Linux, Skype, etc, and a good phone, in a nice small _open_ package.

Re:Disappointment of the Palm Pre? (1, Troll)

philpalm (952191) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757881)

Love the Pre, but seriously when provided by Sprint you have to hack it in order to enable tethering. Also you have to hack it if you unsubscribe in order to use the wifi. Will the hacking of Pre become greater than the hacking of IPhone? For Linux users Pre is more of a slam dunk....

Re:Disappointment of the Palm Pre? (2, Insightful)

s.o.terica (155591) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758439)

Fundamentally the Pre and webOS have always been brilliant, second only to the iPhone in many ways and superior in a few (brilliant multitasking interface, brilliant unobtrusive notifications interface, gesture area below screen, keyboard, universal SMS/chat threads, TeleNav navigation included with plan, etc.). It also has a development platform with, for most developers, the shortest learning curve (using HTML/JavaScript for all the local apps).

The only things that have ever been an issue with the Pre were a few bugs (not show-stopping, mostly related to bluetooth and the like), almost all of which they've fixed by webOS 1.2; and the battery life, which seems to also have been somewhat mitigated by newer OS versions. The Pre as it stands now is a rock-solid platform, with very arguably better messaging capabilities than either the iPhone or the Storm for anyone who doesn't explicitly need Blackberry Enterprise Server compatibility (Pre works flawlessly with Exchange).

BB Storm on the other hand is glued to an antiquated OS that has had successive layers of cruft grafted onto it to modernize it (evidenced nowhere more than the fact that a touchscreen phone still essentially has an on-screen pointer, with the click action being separate from the touch action). Worse, it's much more of a bear from a developer standpoint.

LOL (4, Insightful)

Captain Splendid (673276) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757609)

After the disappointment of the Palm Pre, could this be the smartphone to beat?"

Um, yeah, let's not mention the elephant in the room, shall we?

Re:LOL (0, Troll)

Kamokazi (1080091) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757633)

Although the hardware is lackluster, WebOS is pretty nice. I really wouldn't call the Pre a disappointment at all.

Re:LOL (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29757687)

Honestly, I don't even think the hardware is lackluster. It's sexy, it feels solid and the keyboard is surprisingly good.

Re:LOL (1)

DittoBox (978894) | more than 4 years ago | (#29759109)

As a mostly happy Pre owner, let me be brutally honest: the slider is weak and feels like it could break easily with enough pressure. It's very loose and exhibits was is not-so-fondly referred to as "The Oreo Effect."

The OS can be a bit slow at times, but otherwise I'm extremely happy with it. Having been around a few friends with iPhones I was quite happy to switch between open apps to look something up in Google and then continue what I was working with. Much quicker.

Re:LOL (1)

mcsqueak (1043736) | more than 4 years ago | (#29759169)

Although the hardware is lackluster, WebOS is pretty nice. I really wouldn't call the Pre a disappointment at all.

Yeah, I have an iPhone but the Pre is nice too (the one thing I dislike about the iPhone is no multitasking). I just didn't care for the little slide out keyboard, personally. With another release or two I think we'll start to see the Pre really shine, just like with the iPhone. It needs time for the App ecosystem to develop further as well, but that will happen with time.

As others have mentioned, this "blank-killer!" mentality is sort of stupid. There is so much room for growth in the smart phone market as they become cheaper and people with normal cellphones switch to smart phones, there is plenty of room for multiple brands to co-exist, just as with normal cellphones.

Re:LOL (2, Insightful)

thisnamestoolong (1584383) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757645)

I think it is understood in the reading that the iPhone is the smartphone to beat, it was very clear to me that they were referring to the promises made by Palm to unseat the iPhone from its iThrone around its release, and musing as to whether or not the Storm 2 has what it takes.

Re:LOL (1, Troll)

rinoid (451982) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757967)

Yeah, it'd be great if companies and more so, the press, could stop thinking in terms of a __________ killer! Nothing is so wrong with the iPHone that it needs to be "beat" or "killed" or "maimed" or anything else. I'm not pandering or trolling for the "can't we all just get along" people. If your main focus is always the other guy then how can you improve yourself? OK take a measurement now and then but gosh you have to do the work to win. This much is obvious ... but what's not obvious is for RIM or PALM to win, Apple need not lose.

Re:LOL (3, Insightful)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758173)

You know what would be REALLY nice? If I could just swap phones as needed during the course of the day. For example - walking the dogs, or shopping, or driving - take a flip-phone. At the office? Move my "identity" into a smartphone. This way I don't have to decide between something small that fits in a pocket and won't break if I drop it, and something that has more functionality.

Re:LOL (1)

imgod2u (812837) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758415)

If all you're worried about is making calls and storing numbers, Google Voice is your solution.

Re:LOL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29758495)

Urm, but you can... or is my sarcasm detector faulty again?

Re:LOL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29758629)

Isn't that the reasoning behind the SIM cards AT&T pushes?

Re:LOL (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758155)

So this is the phone to beat, the phone to beat.

Re:LOL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29757977)

You mean the Blackberry storm 1 that only came out barely a year ago?
Or are you refering to the King Kong sized Gorilla in the room formally known as Iphone?

Re:LOL (4, Funny)

mvdwege (243851) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758009)

It will indeed take some time to beat Nokia.

Mart

Re:LOL (5, Insightful)

Shane112358 (1532293) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758057)

The Palm Pre was certainly only a disappointment to those people who expected it to be the second coming of Jesus or to overtake the iPhone within months of release. I have a Pre and it is the best phone I have ever owned. The OS is top notch. The hardware isn't perfect but neither was the iPhone when it came out. As someone else said, the problem is that you need to compete with the ecology of Apple - not just the h/w or s/w. So even if all the small shortcomings of WebOS are addressed, and the next Pre has none of the h/w issues of the first, and it's very popular - it still doesn't mean that it will "kill" the iPhone. It will take a while - at least a year or so - for the iPhone to be dethroned by any competing architecture. It will happen, for sure. Whether it's one year or ten years from now is up to Apple, their competitors, and shear luck.

Re:LOL (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Monkey (795756) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758167)

Yeah, let's not talk about Android. Actualy the way I cut up phone users by what they do with their phone:

1) Cell Phones: people who make calls and take some pictures (aka my mom and dad)

2) Cell Phones with Keyboards, text heavy IM users who make calls, (aka me, my wife, ect).

3) Smart Phones: Appointments, e-mail, text msgs, perhaps twiter, and phone calls (My boss and his blackberry buddies)

4) The iPhone: People who mostly use internet access and send messages.

And on a related note, I was out for pizza the other night and counted over 10 iPhones. The reason they were so easy to spot was that people who had them were face to the phone and not talking for most of the night. Once it was the joke that Nerds would prefer to IM than talk, but in the collage/partying side of the restaurant it was all nose to phone, and in the back their was a Magic the Gathering group that was laughing and talking and interacting with each-other. Perhaps the next joke will be that every one likes IM and txt better, but nerds are trying to be all smart practice using their vocabulary and talk face to face.

Re:LOL (1)

imamac (1083405) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758305)

Hm. I'm in 3 & 4 as are many others I know. Your assumption that they are separate is incorrect. The iPhone is a smart phone.

Re:LOL (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Monkey (795756) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758493)

I state them as separate because the people I know with iPhones use them differently than other smart phone users. I have had some one hand me their iPhone with a map loaded to show me how to get to a restaurant, something normally done verbally or with a quick sketch. I know iPhone users who keep their complete photo collection on their phone, most people use the phone to hold snapshots only. A friend of mine uses his iPhone to watch movies, no other smart phone user I know keeps movies with him. The iPhone is, in my opinion, a portable media computer with phone functionality. The first real attempt to make a Tricorder prehaps, but the difference between an iPhone and the average smart phone is as great as the difference between the average smart phone and my moms cell phone without a camera.

Blackberry would be more compelling (4, Informative)

swb (14022) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757627)

If there was more direct data in/out to the device, versus "securely" routing everything through RIM. That model seems like it makes sense in a 1999 way, but now it just makes it awkward to use them outside of a BES environment.

The iPhone may be a closed platform, but at least data I/O isn't forced through Apple's servers.

Re:Blackberry would be more compelling (1)

loftwyr (36717) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757879)

Neither is the Palm Pre's It syncs directly to the server you want (EAS and others)

Re:Blackberry would be more compelling (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758335)

Generally, the entire point of a blackberry is going to be the BES or BIS. Why on earth would you get one if you arent using those? It doesnt support activesync, even!

Re:Blackberry would be more compelling (1)

tweek (18111) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758429)

That's the point though. What's the point of adding Wifi to the Storm 2? Nothing will really take advantage of it. Why does the BB *HAVE* to use a BIS in this day and age? I can SOMEWHAT understand BES but honestly with ActiveSync and EWS, there's no point to BES anymore.

The biggest reason I like my Storm is the feedback I get from the screen while typing. But that's slowly becoming less of a reason for me to keep it.

Re:Blackberry would be more compelling (1)

vilms (106676) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758653)

Nothing will really take advantage of WiFi? Except BES (and BIS)! Perhaps I am misunderstanding what you're saying here, but it's useful to have the handset switch between wireless networks and GPRS (or what have you) in the same way that the iPhone does between WiFi and 3G etc. But then I have a Curve (no 3G) and not a Storm, so maybe I am totally missing the point. Eh, it happens...
Looks like a decent rev to the Storm. But, it would have to be, right? It's an Apple-shaped world...

Re:Blackberry would be more compelling (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29758337)

it's not on blackberry either - there are several ways to route your data, through Rims MDS is just one, you can also route through your carriers wap gateway as well as the carrier BIS. This is all down to the programmer.

Re:Blackberry would be more compelling (1)

tweek (18111) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758405)

This is the biggest thing I've come to hate about my Storm (and the Storm 2). ANY push functionality has to go via RIM. The wifi is next to pointless on the Storm 2 the more that I look at it because I can't DO anything with it other than browse the web faster than over 3G. Oh Podtrapper will get my podcasts faster too. Whoop dee!

I was strongly considering upgrade my Storm to the Storm 2 but I think I may hold off until Verizon gets the Wifi android phone next year. The whole BIS/BES + your PIN/physical phone hardware is who you are (versus me being who I am) is dated.

"feels just like clicking a button" (4, Insightful)

toppavak (943659) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757637)

I was under the impression that the problem most users have with touchscreens isn't feedback after clicking, but before. I can touch-type on my blackberry, which lets me go a lot faster than on smooth touchscreens because I can tell my finger is on the right button by feel.

Re:"feels just like clicking a button" (4, Informative)

Anonymusing (1450747) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757823)

I am so used to the iPhone "keyboard" now that I can essentially touch-type. Sometimes I fat-finger it and hit the wrong key, but the correction feature is pretty good about that. I'm not saying the iPhone is better or worse than other smartphones; merely, it's what I have now, and the typing does not feel much different than when I had a Blackberry.

FWIW, I type roughly 85 words a minute on a full-size keyboard (with 95% accuracy).

Re:"feels just like clicking a button" (5, Interesting)

bluesky74656 (625291) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758207)

I think there's something to the fact that the iPhone's auto-correction is more suited to a touchscreen than the Blackberry's. I've found that while the Blackberry's spell-check is very good for people who sometimes make spelling errors, the iPhone's is much better about fixing fat-finger syndrome.

I would almost be tempted to say that the iPhone's spell-check puts more weight on where keys are located, while the Blackberry's is more of a straight dictionary search

Re:"feels just like clicking a button" (1)

Anonymusing (1450747) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758857)

would almost be tempted to say that the iPhone's spell-check puts more weight on where keys are located, while the Blackberry's is more of a straight dictionary search

I think that's true -- probably one of the better insights of Apple's approach. This may explain why there are times I misspell a word out of ignorance, and it won't correct it, because it's not due to incorrect keystrikes.

Re:"feels just like clicking a button" (1)

lymond01 (314120) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758365)

I agree...the iPhone keypad has always been good for me. But I understand people who can type while walking or looking elsewhere...it's tough to do on a flat screen where you can't feel the keys. When I'm driving and texting, I always make certain to keep my eyes fixed firmly on the iPhone screen, because the auto-correct is good, but why take the risk your email might have a misspelled word? (sar-cas-m)

Re:"feels just like clicking a button" (1)

Anonymusing (1450747) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758807)

"Don't drink and drive. You might hit a bump and spill your drink."

But, about the iPhone keyboard: my point is that I'm familiar enough with its layout that I can type without looking at it, as long as I'm holding the thing in the proper way.

Re:"feels just like clicking a button" (1)

CAIMLAS (41445) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758527)

Wow, you can type on the iPhone's screen as if you had tactile feedback, without looking at it? Impressive.

Re:"feels just like clicking a button" (1)

Anonymusing (1450747) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758753)

Consider it "virtual touch-typing" -- I know where the keys are, relative to my hands' position on the device, so I can just type without looking. Similar to what I do on a physical keyboard.

Re:"feels just like clicking a button" (1)

jittles (1613415) | more than 4 years ago | (#29759417)

Really? I feel like a clumsy oaf on my iphone. I can touch type but probably half the words will come out completely wrong. I'm a pretty tall person though so my finger tips are pretty big. Sometimes I accidentally touch the "send" button while my finger is on the 'O' or 'P' key. The iPhone keyboard drives me insane.

"Developers, Developers, Developers..." (4, Insightful)

nweaver (113078) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757673)

To quote MonkeyBoy, err, Steve Ballmer...

This is why the iPhone has become so entrenched, it has the developers. Its not just a matter of building hardware that matches Apple, you now have to build an ecology to match Apple.

Which is very hard: . Look at the MP3 player market. People have made plenty of players better than the iPod-of-the-time, but Apple has the ecology annd is now hard to displace.

Re:"Developers, Developers, Developers..." (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29757805)

Or, to quote someone else, "hardware is useless without software". I'm too lazy to even search the author of this one.

Re:"Developers, Developers, Developers..." (1)

Canazza (1428553) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758023)

Funilly enough, no-one I know has an iPod, or any other Apple-based MP3 Player. I use my phone (A non-smart phone too) as an MP3 player, as do most of my friends. Of those that do have an MP3 Player, they've got ones of a variety of brands. It's quite possible that Apples market-share is over-inflated in some peoples minds, either that or it's under-inflated in my mind.

Re:"Developers, Developers, Developers..." (1)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758639)

It's quite possible that Apples market-share is over-inflated in some peoples minds, either that or it's under-inflated in my mind.

Since market studies show it as 73% of the music player market, it may well be the latter. Of course that does not count cell phone sales. Apple sells about 10 million ipods a quarter and there are about 30 million cell phone sales, a subset of which are music players and about 4 million of which are iPhones. So if we combine the markets, Apple sells about 14 million of the 43 million combined phone and music player market. So (roughly) better than 1 in 4 music playing devices in use is an Apple device. If you have more than 4 friends, you're bucking the curve.

Re:"Developers, Developers, Developers..." (1)

mcsqueak (1043736) | more than 4 years ago | (#29759027)

Funilly enough, no-one I know has an iPod, or any other Apple-based MP3 Player.

Most of the people I know have an iPod of some form of another, from the old Nano up to the new iTouch. Personally, I have an old-school 20 gig iPod with the scrollwheel and black/white screen that lives in my car serving as a way to feed my stereo with all my music. I also have an iPhone that I'll keep a few favorite albums on, but mostly I use it to podcast these days while at work.

Re:"Developers, Developers, Developers..." (1)

PocariSweat1991 (1651929) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758051)

The iPhone is also enticing for developers because you only have to develop for AT&T's network and its restrictions.

When you develop an application for the BlackBerry, you could find that a feature that works on AT&T doesn't work on Verizon, or behaving entirely differently on T-Mobile or Sprint.

Re:"Developers, Developers, Developers..." (1)

CharlyFoxtrot (1607527) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758307)

To quote MonkeyBoy, err, Steve Ballmer...

This is why the iPhone has become so entrenched, it has the developers. Its not just a matter of building hardware that matches Apple, you now have to build an ecology to match Apple.

Also why it was absolutely brilliant to not allow flash, java, etc programming on the iPhone. All those developers now have skills which translate more or less easily to mac development.

Re:"Developers, Developers, Developers..." (3, Interesting)

mafian911 (1270834) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758715)

I agree completely. To me, the blackberry is a bit of a relic. They can dress up blackberry's with new tech and a fancy new OS, but I have to say, the developer experience remains horrible. I'm surprised that Blackberry still has the reputation it has, to be honest. They may have been the first "cool" smartphone, but they can't ride that wave forever. If they want to continue to be a player in the smartphone market, they may need to reconsider their content strategy. I suppose they can survive by holding their place as the "corporate phone". Corporations don't need content for their employees. They don't need data plans. They may be able to hang on in the "boring" smartphone space for a while, no doubt... Windows Mobile will be there only competitor there. As for unseating iPhone... no chance. Not with their content model. It won't touch Android either, in my opinion.

Re:"Developers, Developers, Developers..." (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29758777)

This was actually the reason I decided to buy an iPhone instead of a Palm.

I'm generally very dismissive of products where you pay a 20% premium just for a logo stamp. The iPhone even has weaker features than a number of competitors (no memory card, lower screen resolution, poor battery), but the simple fact is, once a couple of million fanboys buy it, the app ecology is a valuable feature in itself.

No Way... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29757709)

I'm never buying another Blackberry.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again.

Re:No Way... (1)

BigHungryJoe (737554) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757735)

Amen. I bought the Storm. What a complete piece of shit. Sluggish OS (in a touch screen OS, absolutely intolerable), graphical glitches abound... it just sucks.

try before you buy! (1)

Briden (1003105) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757983)

I almost bought the storm, but i went to the store and tried it out and didn't like the touch screen. So i bought the blackberry BOLD 9000, and I am very happy with it.

Re:No Way... (1)

seanmeister (156224) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758133)

Amen. I bought the Storm. What a complete piece of shit. Sluggish OS (in a touch screen OS, absolutely intolerable), graphical glitches abound... it just sucks.

Agreed... I bought the original Storm when it was released last year, It was my first BlackBerry device, and after struggling with the Storm for a few days, I ran away screaming back to my dumbphone. The Storm hardware and software were definitely not ready for prime time.

I recently decided to give BlackBerry another day in court and am currently using a Curve 8330... I like it quite a lot and am considering the Storm 2 as my next upgrade, but I'll definitely do some hands-on testing before I actually purchase it.

Re:No Way... (1)

clandonald (1652847) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758531)

Rim took a lesson from MS with how the memory is managed. It sucks. At first I thought MS was to blame for Media player crashing all the time then I realized it was a memory issue. RIM needs to create a swap partition either using the remainder of the onboard memory or on the SD card. But overall the Storm isn't to bad of a phone if you don't mind rebooting like it's Win 98.

You will have to pry my clicking screen (1)

jeffmeden (135043) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757727)

From my cold dead hands! I love my Storm 1.

Oh, and might I add: You damn, dirty apes!

Re:You will have to pry my clicking screen (1)

epiphani (254981) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758189)

Er, the clicking screen hasn't gone away. It just got a whole lot better.

Re:You will have to pry my clicking screen (1)

Ksevio (865461) | more than 4 years ago | (#29759271)

Ah so you're the one!

Palm Pre (2, Informative)

bbroerman (715822) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757863)

To me, the only disappointment in the Palm Pre is SPRINT!

Re:Palm Pre (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29758085)

Really? It could be worse: it could be on AT&T.

Re:Palm Pre (1)

Orbijx (1208864) | more than 4 years ago | (#29759151)

I've used worse carriers.

See: MetroPCS, AT&T.

Sprint may not be the best, but as long as you don't have to talk to them, the service is rather good. Only dropped calls I get are from MetroPCS users ("Hello, hello, hello" is not just their catchphrase, but the sound of their users trying to see if anyone's still on the line).

I do know and understand that not everyone gets good coverage on Sprint, and can only speak from my personal experiences, but I'm happy the Pre is at least offered on Sprint. Too many half-decent or better phones aren't (see: G1).

Re:Palm Pre (1)

DittoBox (978894) | more than 4 years ago | (#29759199)

They may not have a huge network, but where I'm at it's identical to my old Verizon outfit. In fact, I'd argue that since I'm paying just a little over 50USD for unlimited data, unlimited mobile-to-mobile (regardless of carrier), unlimited text messages and 200% more minutes I'm doing pretty damn good.

The Disappointment of the Palm Pre (5, Funny)

brennanw (5761) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757905)

... I know exactly what you're talking about! After buying my Pre, I found that:

  - I didn't immediately lose weight
  - I still had to wear glasses
  - the damage to my hearing (after 20 years of listening to good music) wasn't repaired
  - my credit limit wasn't raised, and my day-to-day living expenses weren't reduced

Sure, overall it's a great phone, as far as portable phones that store important information, take pictures, play music and access the internet go, but those four points stick in my craw. Fail!

Re:The Disappointment of the Palm Pre (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29758021)

Did it turn you into a sunken-eyed extremely creepy potential crack-whore?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSMj5RoYdEI [youtube.com]

If they want the storm2 to be more successful... (3, Insightful)

damn_registrars (1103043) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757949)

... they need to release it on a more relevant network. Just because Verizon claims to have the most subscribers in the US doesn't mean its a relevant market for blackberry phones. In particular the fact that Verizon is still clinging to old network technology makes it a bit of a burden for phone deployment in corporate environments. GSM networks are head and shoulders above the Verizon network in speed of phone deployment.

If an employee drops their phone and needs to replace it ASAP, someone in the company can pull the SIM card, put it into a new phone, and the employee is back to work with minimal downtime - unless you're on a non-GSM carrier in which case you need to have the magic store deactivate the old phone, sell you a new phone, activate it, etc...

If RIM doesn't realize that their terrible choice of carrier (on an exclusive deal no less) was a big part of the lack of success in the first generation storm, then they need to have their heads examined. Release the new phone on a modern GSM network and we'll see how it really fares.

Re:If they want the storm2 to be more successful.. (1)

cabjf (710106) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758125)

The Storm doesn't seem to be a business centric phone like the rest of the Blackberries. So having it on a carrier without SIM cards isn't that big of an issue. Besides, there are probably plenty of people on the Verizon network (most subscribers in the US, like you said) just waiting for a decent smartphone to be available on Verizon's network. It really doesn't sound that complicated on a non-GSM carrier. You still need to obtain a new phone from somewhere, even if you have a SIM card.

Re:If they want the storm2 to be more successful.. (4, Insightful)

seanmeister (156224) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758251)

You can bash VZW's CDMA network all you want, but as long as they keep giving me 4 bars of EVDO goodness out here in the desert in rural southwestern New Mexico, they'll get nothing but love from me :)

Re:If they want the storm2 to be more successful.. (1)

CAIMLAS (41445) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758561)

Apparently you're not from the midwest. The Blackberry smartphones have been incredibly popular out here in Verizonland - if, for no other reason, than there are no other smartphones worth half a damn available.

With Verizon bandwidth fees and quality of service/bandwidth throughput, you're not going to be able to use an iPhone or WinMo phone anyway...

Re:If they want the storm2 to be more successful.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29758625)

If an employee drops their phone and needs to replace it ASAP, someone in the company can pull the SIM card, put it into a new phone, and the employee is back to work with minimal downtime - unless you're on a non-GSM carrier in which case you need to have the magic store deactivate the old phone, sell you a new phone, activate it, etc...

Or...if you're seriously that reliant on RIM phones, you could keep several extra on hand, and you can activate them yourself using Verizon's support website.

My Razr v3M broke last year. I had still kept my old phone from before my upgrade. I just went to the support website and deactivated my phone myself and activated my old one. Easy peasy.

Re:If they want the storm2 to be more successful.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29758749)

You don't need to visit the store to switch a phone. First you'll need a spare phone handy to do the swap (GSM or Verizon). If you have a spare phone then all you need to do is go online and log into your account, switch the phone out in your account and magically the replacement phone is now activated.

I've done this several times on Verizon and it works.

Re:If they want the storm2 to be more successful.. (1)

jeffmeden (135043) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758829)

This is a relevant complaint, except in the case of Verizon it takes a 90 second phone call to support (or use of an automated tool) in order to change phones. As long as the new phone is compatible with the network, they will switch it over no questions asked. Your hyperbole about how much easier this is to accomplish with a GSM SIM card is pretty, well, hyperbolic. You may have had a point if you told us that contact lists in non-SIM enabled phones are harder to transfer, but again there are several tools thanks to Verizon that make it an easy task. That being said, even if it were a hassle to switch devices when one broke, I still would never consider signing with ATT, Tmobile, or Sprint. Their networks, in EVERY area I have traveled in the past few years, have been noticeably inferior to Verizon's. I can't even remember the number of times I have had to say "here, use my phone, it works here" when traveling. Too many, to be certain.

Re:If they want the storm2 to be more successful.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29758949)

If an employee drops their phone and needs to replace it ASAP, someone in the company can pull the SIM card, put it into a new phone, and the employee is back to work with minimal downtime - unless you're on a non-GSM carrier in which case you need to have the magic store deactivate the old phone, sell you a new phone, activate it, etc...

I don't know about Verizon, but you don't have to go to a Sprint store to activate or swap phones. You can activate phones online. Although it might involve reprogramming the phone, they give you instructions on how to do so, and reprogramming can be done in under a minute. Last time I activated a Sprint phone, it picked up the programming automatically, so I didn't even have to do that. Contacts wouldn't transfer over immediately, but if your phone supports wireless synchronization with an exchange server or something, then a simple update there fixes that problem.

So yes, you can swap CDMA phones rather quickly, even without having to open the battery door.

Re:If they want the storm2 to be more successful.. (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 4 years ago | (#29759299)

"If an employee drops their phone and needs to replace it ASAP, someone in the company can pull the SIM card, put it into a new phone, and the employee is back to work with minimal downtime - unless you're on a non-GSM carrier in which case you need to have the magic store deactivate the old phone, sell you a new phone, activate it, etc..."
If the SIM is from the same carrier or if the phone is "unlocked".
CDMA is a better technology than GSM. In fact the new high speed GSM modes are based on ... CDMA.
Verizon and Sprint both seem to deliver better service in more places than TMobile and AT&T which are the two GSM providers.
The idea of unlocked phones with SIM cards is great and if you travel to europe a lot GSM is the way to go but it isn not an old network technology.

As a former Storm owner (3, Informative)

m0s3m8n (1335861) | more than 4 years ago | (#29757981)

As a former Storm owner I think RIM has gone a long way to fixing several of the idiotic design choices (compromises) in the Storm Mk1. I never had a problem with the click screen after applying some recommended fixes. I hope the build quality had been improved as I went through 4 phones before giving up. Probably the biggest issue I had with the phone (as a smartphone) was the terrible memory management. Blackberry, while they advertize several gigs of internal storage, use a small dedicated memory pool for the OS, program storage, and data (email) storage. On the original that was 128 MB. Just turning the phone on dropped that to 50 MB usable and after loading several apps, it would drop to 10-20. At that level the phone became very sluggish. And the OS have a propensity to leak memory so that as the day went on your usable memory level would continue to fall to the point where you had to pull the battery to reset the phone.

Re:As a former Storm owner (2, Funny)

bluesky74656 (625291) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758145)

And the OS have a propensity to leak memory so that as the day went on your usable memory level would continue to fall to the point where you had to pull the battery to reset the phone.

My Storm seems to have a feature that automatically resets the phone at random intervals. It handily solves that problem, but can be annoying when you're actually trying to do something with it.

Seriously, though, the sluggishness of the phone is a big drawback. If it could keep up with how fast I type and not randomly reset I would be very happy with it.

Re:As a former Storm owner (1)

tweek (18111) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758523)

That's the thing I never understood. There was NOTHING preventing RIM from putting more than the measly 128M memory pool in there. It was a cheap shitty move. Even bumping up to 1GB may not solve the problems...just push out the time needed to reboot. RIM was dragged kicking and screaming out of the pager market and the hardware occasionally shows that.

We'll see. I've not loaded OS5 on my current storm yet so I have no idea how much better or worse the memory management is.

New Storm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29758019)

Whatever the outcome, ANYTHING that doesn't use itunes to sync = a win for me!

The important question... (4, Insightful)

Linker3000 (626634) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758065)

Does it support IMAP/POP/SMTP natively or are you still stuck with the pile-of-crap BIS/BES services for email (or using Web interfaces or third party java apps)?

I won't even consider looking at this model for the rest of our small (16) corporate team unless we can use our own (postfix-based) mail servers. The fact that we have to hand over our email account usernames and passwords AND pay just so the Vodafone BIS server can pick up mail and kindly pass it on to the Blackberries (and vice versa) is simply crap, a security risk and a PITA if a user changes their password via our mail server's Web interface.

That is why I have an HTC Rhodium (Touch Pro 2)!

Re:The important question... (1, Insightful)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758445)

Just because BES doesnt support your environment doesnt make it a piece of crap. BIS isnt really meant to be a real solution for businesses anyways. Stop using the wrong product for the wrong thing. Get an exchange / domino / groupwise server and BES, or stop complaining that they dont work properly.

Re:The important question... (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758577)

Don't you find it interesting that all the open source proponents here turn tail and defend RIM when it suits their purpose?

Rolling disappointment (5, Insightful)

Maury Markowitz (452832) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758075)

> After the disappointment of the Palm Pre, could this be the smartphone to beat?

Does everyone already forget that the Pre was going to be the one to beat after the disappointment of the Storm? Clearly the Pre 2 will be the one to beat after the disappointment of the

There's nothing wrong with the Pre, and the "disappointment" has little to do with the phone. The disappointment is that it didn't stop the iPhone from clobbering them in the market in spite of the hue and cry from the haters and fanbois alike. If you define your disappointment by the lack of relative sales, then my guess is that this is going to be a disappointment too.

It's not about the phone, it's about what you can get onto the phone quickly and easily. Anyone that's Midomi'd a song while walking past a bar patio and then instantly downloaded it from iTunes knows what I mean. Consumers get this, and it seems only the self-declared "experts" who are missing this forest.

Maury

Glad I don't own Apple stock... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#29758139)

Smart phone to beat? This can mean only one thing... Apple went out of business!

2 GB of Storage = Fail (1)

PerfectionLost (1004287) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758271)

2 GB of Storage = Fail. 'nuff said.

Re:2 GB of Storage = Fail (1)

m0s3m8n (1335861) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758351)

That is the dedicated internal flash storage. You can add a micro SD for much more. BUT, the actually phone OS, data, and programs are stored and run in a dedicated 256MB ram. And that is double of the original.

Re:2 GB of Storage = Fail (1)

PerfectionLost (1004287) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758455)

And the low end iPhone (aka phone to beat) ships with 8 gigs, and sells for $100 USD. The high end offers much more.

Re:2 GB of Storage = Fail (1)

tweek (18111) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758845)

You don't understand how the BB Storm is designed.

The Storm2 ships with three "memory" areas (yes I'm using memory incorrectly):
256MB OS pool
1GB Internal Storage
16GB External Storage (microsd)

The 256MB is where the OS runs, applications run and messages are stored. The original storm had 128MB. It would take 50MB just after powering on. In this case, the Storm2 is just delaying the problem instead of fixing it. We'll have to see how much better memory management is in OS5.

The 1GB internal storage is where pictures and songs and ringtones and such are stored by default. You can change this.

The 16GB microsd is the data storage area.

The biggest problem that RIM has is they have too many fucking devices. In the interest of developer sanity, they can't do cool shit like move the message store outside the 256MB area to the microsd because that might not work on another model that doesn't have a microsd slot.

Having said that, the storm2 from a data storage perspective is on par with the iphone.

Re:2 GB of Storage = Fail (1)

jeffmeden (135043) | more than 4 years ago | (#29759045)

And Verizon sells the previous phone (storm 1) with a FREE 8GB card, bringing the usable device space to 9GB. Suck on that, Apple. That, and 16GB or even 32GB microSD cards aren't hard to come by. The upside is you aren't stuck with a fixed amount of memory (as in the case of the iPhone). But no one would ever need more than 8GB anyway, right?

Re:2 GB of Storage = Fail (1)

magpie (3270) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758607)

2 GB on board, you can how ever slap a 16 GB micro SD card into it and your sorted. Heck if that's not enough just get a few and switch them if you want.

Uh, no. (1)

jht (5006) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758421)

The Storm may be a great Blackberry, but that doesn't make it the smartphone to beat. That remains the iPhone until proven otherwise.

Individual phones may have great features (The Pre has its relatively unrestricted development environment and multitasking, Blackberries have the BES for corporate management, etc., and Android has whatever the hell Android has), but until you take the full ecosystem that Apple's spawned and replicate most of it elsewhere they're still the king of the hill.

It's not that Apple invented the smartphone per se (I still remember my old Treo 650 that usually worked, for instance, and my 1st generation Blackberry I used at my old job), but the current popular definition of a smartphone is pretty much "has a touchscreen, runs bajillions of apps, is shiny and pretty, and can be my media center".

AKA iPhone. They created the definition that the average person is using nowadays, they were the first mover, and their app store has created a huge platform lock-in.

Re:Uh, no. (1)

rickb928 (945187) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758621)

Android has Google.

Is that better than RIM? wow. Good question.

But the pushback against using RIM for your corporate services is interesting.

Imagine you're actually using your 'smartphone' for business. With BlackBerry and Google, you get backup of contacts, calendar, email, as well as Web access with Google. Reasonably good availability worldwide, certainly competitive with all but the very best corporate IT efforts.

With Apple?

Palm Pre is still too new to know how reliable it is.

Those Sidekick users who run their business on their phone now know how risky that really is. Suitable for the 18 Twitter crowd, I suppose.

Calling out RIM as a less-than-excellent choice for business phones is missing the mark, IMHO. If I had to depend on my phone for business, it would NOT be a Pre, iPhone, Sidekick, any WinMo model, or my G1. It would be a Curve or Bold, probably the Curve or maybe a similar model. They do get it done.

My G1 is too 'Android' for business reliance. But great fun as a personal phone - updates, wipes, tomfoolery with apps, way fun. I'm gonna root it, right after I study the process and set aside a Saturday afternoon. It really isn;t worth it, except for a curiosity jaunt.

Re:Uh, no. (1)

ianare (1132971) | more than 4 years ago | (#29759387)

"has a touchscreen, runs bajillions of apps, is shiny and pretty, and can be my media center". AKA iPhone.

No, there is another. Or rather, there will be another very soon : the nokia N900 [nokia.com] . Oh, and as an extra bonus, no vendor lock-in !

On VZW do I want the Storm 2 or Android? (4, Interesting)

edmicman (830206) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758911)

Serious question - I'm a dumbphone user finally wanting to move to a smartphone, and in the next couple of months. I have to (read: want to) stay on Verizon, and don't want a Windows Mobile phone. I've decided on either the Storm2 or the upcoming Android phones, but am not sure which to go with.

Essentially what I want is a phone that I can email/message/facebook/twitter/do tasks/organize my life with. I want to be able to browse the web, but I don't see myself spending lots of time doing that; usually I see it just looking up something quick. I also don't see myself as a big apps/games user, but then again having never had that experience I don't know - maybe I would if the opportunity were there.

From what I can tell, my impressions are:
BB pros:
better build quality
good (best?) messaging/email ability (I don't really know, but figured that was their background so it must be very good?)
relatively proven track record for phones like this

BB cons:
lack of webkit browser (aren't they supposed to be working on this? when? would the S2 get it eventually?)
generally "closed" system
I have the perception there's less consumer app development for BB than with other platforms

Android pros:
webkit browser
open system
app development seems to have more potential, especially with consumer apps

Android cons:
how is the messaging? Does it work well?
still young...although that doesn't bother me that much
from what I have seen of the VZW leaks, the form factors don't seem as nice as the BB.

Having experience with neither, I don't really know if I have a preference between hard or soft keyboards.

Thoughts or advice?

Re:On VZW do I want the Storm 2 or Android? (2, Informative)

Voyager529 (1363959) | more than 4 years ago | (#29759305)

despite the HTC Touch Pro2 [verizonwireless.com] running WinMo, you won't know it unless you intentionally go there. VZW already has a Winmo 6.5 update, and the XDA chefs are great as always. I had an older WinMo phone and I absolutely, unquestionably understand your aversion to the platform. But unless your concerns are philosophical (i.e. ABM), go give it a look. Seriously. I had an iPhone and couldn't believe I had tortured myself with one for as long as I had. A co-worker of mine owned a Curve and a Storm. He played with mine for all of 90 seconds and said "does Verizon have it?" (I've got the T-Mo version). He had one the next week and couldn't be happier.

And I'm not employed by any company involved, nor am I a $PLATFORM fanboi. The TP2 is simply the best phone that I have ever owned.

Re:On VZW do I want the Storm 2 or Android? (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 4 years ago | (#29759405)

I think you get the pros and cons wrong.
The new Android phones for VZW are from Motorola. Motorola over all builds really good handsets that have been dull as dirt. They tend to have great build quality and sound quality. This shoals hopefully will live up to that standard.
From what I have seen messaging on the Android is very good.
Age? The BB is older than dirt and frankly is falling behind.

The Blackberry is great for exchange email. If you live and die by email then the blackberry should be high on your list.
If you want cool apps and a good browser and or if you live and die by GMail than take a hard look at Android.

I have a harder problem. Do I get an HTC Hero or wait for the Samsung Moment?

Disappointment of the Pre? (1)

nilbog (732352) | more than 4 years ago | (#29758975)

There was a segment on the daily show recently where Stewart showed how CNN would allow people to make spurious claims and then say "ok, we're out of time!" without making them back up their claims. That's a little how I feel here. How is the Pre disappointing? My impression is that most people who own one really love it and are very cognizant of the advantages over the iPhone (multitasking, open development environment, using the data connection for things that are actually useful).

So I'm wondering if this "disappointment" is just the disappointment of barrence, and really has no baring on the general view of the public. Any way, we're out of space on the synopsis, so I guess we'll never know.

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