iPhone vs. Android Battle Goes To Afghanistan 146
redlined writes "Cell phones are tired of waiting for the troops to come home and are going to war themselves. Tech startup Berico Tailored Systems, Lockheed Martin and apparently an army of Slashdot users are currently making tactical 3G cellular networks and smartphone applications for the military to use overseas. While DARPA has held a competition to develop iPhone and Android applications, tactically-deployable 3G networks from companies like those above should open up a slew of opportunities for Apple and Google to duke it out on an actual battlefield."
What is the over seas data rate? and how unlocked (Score:1, Troll)
What is the over seas data rate? and how high is unlocked / jailbreak use there?
I just hope the tropes are not on at&T there.
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It looks like Berico Tailored Systems and Lockheed have built their own 3G military networks. Berico Tailored Systems web site says the data rate for their PraefectaCELL 3G is 14.4 mbps.
http://unleashbts.com/praefectacell_3g.php
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At least being overseas won't effect the transfer rate of AT&T. Our soldiers will experience the same level of service that they enjoy at home in New York city.
at over X1000 times the price $20/MB vs $10/GB (Score:2)
so about $20,480 a GB.
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so about $20,480 a GB.
I suppose you think casting networks that can keep connections even though there there might be lots of bullets flying through them, or keeping signals propagating through hostile political environments is easy or cheap? Think again. These are hardened networks that can blow right through military hardened faraday cages. Let's just say if you stood between a laptop and a web page there, you wouldn't be having any more children.
Android (Score:5, Insightful)
For a few key reasons:
1. Swappable battery without sending the phone back to Apple.
2. Open development
3. Custom ROMs
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It's all about quality of build. Something to endure the conditions in Iraq and Afghanistan. I love my iphone but I think the ideal scenario would be the deployment of some custom hardware on the battlefield with Android. Sand gets in everything.
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I use my old Treo 650 as a GPS in off-road rallies, and the sand hasn't caused a problem so far.
I put it in a plastic hard case and then mount it to my windshield with a universal gadget holder (in a soft-top 4x4 with the back and side windows open) - with the lanyard strapping it on as a backup in case something manages to shake it loose, which has happened a only three times - twice on the same stretch of semi-paved road (the WORST kind) and once when we hit a giant hole/big rock combo at speed in a field
Winner: BlackBerry! (Score:2, Interesting)
Despite the hype, BlackBerry still has a bigger market share than Android and iPhone.[1] Besides, the BlackBerry's keyboard has better tactile feedback than Android/iPhone touch screens, which is important for combat operations.
[1] http://gigaom.com/2010/08/02/android-sales-overtake-iphone-in-the-u-s/
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Right - far more secure! (Score:2)
The best idea is to have all your battlefield communications going through the BES server in Canada. Better hope it doesn't accidentally route through Saudi since that's closer!
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The iPhone would be the worst out of all of them because it comes with only a single fo
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And how many of the BlackBerry users really -like- BlackBerry OS and didn't just pick a BlackBerry because it was cheap, their company bought one or the like?
What sort of argument is that anyway? "How many Iphone users really -like- the Iphone, and didn't just pick an Iphone because it [insert reason why they thought it was better here]?" If people pick a phone because it has something better (which includes being the best at a particular price), then presumably they like it better than everything else they
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Despite the hype, BlackBerry still has a bigger market share than Android and iPhone.[1]
Not for long, according to your own citation [gigaom.com]. Just looking at the graph you referenced, it seems Android is poised to overtake RIM in the US by next quarter.
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RIM are still increasing their sales faster than Apple though - so even if Android does overtake in the US, RIM will still be a healthy 2nd place, with the gap between them and Apple widening.
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Hear hear. As soon as I saw the story, I thought "Oh, someone yet again developing only for the less popular platforms". We should be lucky they're at least releasing for Android (which, at least, are fastest growing), and not just the Iphones (which are 3rd place in the US, 4th worldwide, and also the gap is widening between them and Android, Sybmian and RIM).
Also note that worldwide, Symbian are number one - and Q2 2010 results show that their sales are growing over twice as fast as Apple (their increase
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1. Actually, a swappable battery means another latch/compartment to get dirty, broken, wet, or damaged. The ideal device would be hermetically sealed. Barring that, as few ports/hatches as possible.
2. What restrictions do you think the Army has on apps they distribute?
3. No, but yes. Custom hardware (not ROMs) is the key to Android's future in the Army. If you need to take out the radio or camera for security r
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1: The battery compartment can be attacked with thumb screws that tighten down a compressed rubberized seal when attaching it. That would give it similar properties to being hermetically sealed once the battery is in place. You could also make the entire battery compartment modular in so that it can be easily swapped out if something does get broken with normal filed tools a soldier would have at his disposal.
Of course this would require making a special phone which is what the purpose of using existing pho
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http://www.gd-itronix.com/upload/specifications/us/GD300_datasheet_080210.pdf [gd-itronix.com]
Re:Android (Score:5, Insightful)
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Simple just get a holder for the iPhone which accepts this battery, and charges the device at the same time. I am sure they will come with holders anyway, whichever device they get, to ruggedize the devices. There are already plenty of cases outthere that include a built in battery.
This is not an issue. Custom ROMs maybe, but not this.
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I don't know about cellphones that do, but I have a couple of Panasonic cordless phones at home that each run on a pair of AAAs. I don't see why you couldn't build a cellphone that would work on AAAs (or, better yet, AAs...up to 3 Wh from some of those). My Palm III ran on AAAs, so there's precedent for a roughly smartphone-sized device having them.
The main holdup I can see is that if they were to start using standard battery types, cellphon
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But are there actually any phones that accept standard batteries?
They all do. As long as you're willing to blow the original pre-designed form factor to hell, and as long as you're willing to allow Steve Jobs to go completely insane with rage, you could hook up any battery to a cell phone MacGyver-style. As long as you can match approximately the right voltage and the right intensity, you could use triple-As, double-As, real lemons, whatever...
This would be useful for instance if you only needed a cell phone in a tank, a stationary place, or as a last resort in an emer
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Considering the dismal battery life on the droid phones I would say yes, having a swappable battery on them is a must.
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A 'Pelican Case'; they are sealed and even waterproof ones for all different kinds of phones with rubber padding inside.
Oh yeah and as a side note 'Pelican Cases' are one of the last companies I have found that actually produce their stuff in America in Fullerton, CA I think. Great product if you work in a tough environment or ever go on a several day hike.
I don't care about looks but I just bought a 2500mAh battery and it is huge now, but I can have brightness on max, gps/wifi/bluetooth/browse and talk all
Re:Android (Score:4, Insightful)
2. What restrictions do you think the Army has on apps they distribute?
Ok, I'll try to answer that one:
1. Full device encryption, which some of the Android ROMs provide, but which the iPhone Enterprise-level ROMs do not (as of yet!). Not to mention custom hardware that you just mentioned, which will probably never be doable with the iPhone.
2. A device that's second sourced. In other words, the Department of Defense doesn't want to be solely dependent on one company (one-point-failure) to supply its critical infrastructure. In the case of Intel for instance, Intel had to train to a certain level and license some of its core technology to its arch enemy AMD so that it could be able to win the very lucrative government contracts that the Department of Defense was doling out. This is one of the main reasons that the military is credited for having started the computer revolution. It was not just the funding that was important, it was ultimately the strings that were attached to those funds.
3. The idea that the phone shouldn't be manufactured in Mainland China (for fear of a Chinese back-door). Thus far, only a few of the Android phones meet that criterion. The iPhone doesn't.
4. Standard parts that can be found, swapped, hacked, replaced, and repaired locally (without going against the terms of the license if they were to buy non-approved OEM parts that were just as good as the original but way-way cheaper than non-Apple batteries). And by locally, I don't mean Paris or the UK. I know we can find iPhone headphones over there.
5. Easy to develop on. Again, another clear win for Android. It's not just easier to code on, cut and paste examples, and just make them work with some tweaking (unlike the iPhone), Google is also Beta testing 'App Inventor', a visual IDE which lets you build Android applications visually while the code gets generated in the background.
6. Not being tied to the various whims and moods of Steve Jobs such as: "You May NOT Use iTunes To Design, Manufacture or Produce Nuclear, Chemical or Biological Weapons". I doubt that such a clause would bother the Army, but at least with Android, Google didn't put their "Do no Evil" clause in their terms and conditions. In fact, it's a given that since Flash is allowed to run on Android, it means that "Doing Evil" is clearly allowed.
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Which is what Apple is. It provides a reasonable simple solution to a problem. Android is trying to make the problem more complex
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Huh? What is complex about Android? Especially comparing it to IOS4? The random apps would presumably be disabled as I imagine the military would do the provisioning. There are companies that already make ruggedized phones and putting Android on them is a snap so you're talking about very little modification that needs to be done and then you gain full smart phone capabilities like remote controls, signals analysis in the field, or really anything you can imagine.
I just don't see Apple being that agile, th
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Why do people keep reiterating this myth?
It's a myth because while Android is open-source, it the ROMs aren't "open". Yes you can build an Android image from the source code, but it isn't the same as what your phone runs - with all the extra stuff like "With Google" (Android Marketplace, Goggles, Maps, Mail, etc.) and the UI cutomizations. The stuff you get with the open-source don't include that. It's why Google went after the modders to not distribute ROMs with their stuff on it.
And if you r
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Hardened Android phone available (Score:3, Interesting)
A big plus for Android is that there is already a "hardened" Android system available, the Raytheon Android Tactical System (RATS) :
http://www.raytheon.com/newsroom/technology/rtn09_rats/index.html [raytheon.com]
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4. Low FQ (Faggy Quotient)
Army doesn't want a bunch of soldiers running around with a prissy little iPhone in their hand. They need a manly device. Just the saying the name "Android" makes me spit a wad of tobacco spit, and I'm not even chewing tobacco. Now that's manly. iPhones are for teenage girls and smug hipsters in turtlenecks, not killing machines.
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4. Doesn't result in "telling" under DATD.
Re:Android (Score:5, Insightful)
The point isn't about replacing the battery because of wear (though that is a plus, and the fact that you don't have to unscrew the whole damn backplate to get at it), it's about carrying a 6 pack of batteries when you're going on a mission and swapping them as needed.
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The point isn't about replacing the battery because of wear (though that is a plus, and the fact that you don't have to unscrew the whole damn backplate to get at it), it's about carrying a 6 pack of batteries when you're going on a mission and swapping them as needed.
That's your angle? You're going to carry a six pack versus a spare with a device to charge that offers multiple interfaces for charging? If you're on a mission that long, you're dead or you are in a group where you can swap out your batteries and keep your body with a few add-ons as possible.
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1 spare battery, or even several is a hell of a lot cheaper than a spare unit.
1 spare battery is smaller, lighter, and less prone to breakages than a spare unit.
Why give your enemy 2 devices for free if you're taken out when you can only risk one instead.
Decent android phones make their batteries last a lot longer than any iphone offering atm. ( samoled, hummingbird etc)
If you actually need to use it as a phone for any reason, you don't want an iphone.
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Decent android phones make their batteries last a lot longer than any iphone offering atm. ( samoled, hummingbird etc)
If you actually need to use it as a phone for any reason, you don't want an iphone.
AFAIK, that's not true. The iPhone 4 seems to last 20-50% longer in most usage scenarios than pretty much any other smartphone when keeping the usage pattern constant. (See Anand's reviews [anandtech.com] for instance.) Though I have the impression that this is not due to software or hardware superiority, but due to the sheer size of its battery (made possible by being nonremovable).
Obviously, if you just want a basic phone that lasts longer than a day, you would get a basic Nokia or SonyEricsson instead of a GPS/3G/GHz-pr
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not due to software or hardware superiority, but due to the sheer size of its battery
what exactly do you mean by hardware superiority then?
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not due to software or hardware superiority, but due to the sheer size of its battery
what exactly do you mean by hardware superiority then?
Hardware that is more efficient, i.e. a CPU or screen that sucks less power for the same performance level.
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I'm thinking of the galaxy S as my example here with 1500mah battery, and lower power use cpu/gpu (at idle obv.) and SAMOLED screen.
The iphone4 has a 1420 mah battery.
So the best that I can find out here in this case the android phone not only can run using less power drain, but it has the bigger battery also, and it's still replaceable.
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the iphone lasts %20 to %50 longer. thats only cause the battery is twice as big.
Yes, that's what I said.
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1 spare battery, or even several, will not solve the problem of a bullet/shrapnel/falling on a rock destroying your single unit.
The increased weight is insignificant, and covers far more failure modes.
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This whole thread is ridiculous. You think the military is going to issue a soldier 2 iPhones? This is your solution? What other pieces of military equipment do soldiers carry more than one of? Do they walk around with 2 helmets in case the first one gets damaged? No, they don't, they make a helmet that is resistant to damage.
Several years ago I was working on a software project for the Air Force, and the target platform was a certain Dell PDA. We got a few PDAs to help with development. The PDAs arr
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We did at least.
What is this universal charger you speak of btw? and how does it charge stuff at night, 100% sound smell or light free?
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Re:Android (Score:4, Insightful)
I think the idea is that the mission has a defined length of time (ie, you won't be gone from resupply for that long) and that if the batteries last for 1/4 of your mission, 6 is enough power for the entire mission plus extra for delays or problems. You're also not dependent on recharging which takes time and depends on a battery working. With spares, you just replace a battery and if it doesn't work, you take another.
A charger might be a reasonable thing to have for very long missions or for units attached to a mechanical company of some kind. Otherwise it's time-consuming to use and doesn't solve anything if batteries have failed and won't or can't be charged. Further, the only reliable power source in the field is solar power which doesn't help the charging time or the cost of the equipment.
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Because missions never last longer than planned and things never go wrong.
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There are open source battery chargers for iPhone at adafruit [adafruit.com] for 19.95. Someone had to figure out a slightly unusual set of resistors on the cable pins to get by Apple's obfuscations but it is known technology now. Kind of a tradeoff between having a phone that is better sealed (the iPhone) you have to charge from an external pack, or swap batteries on Android. As I recall the original knock against one of the early Android phones was the the battery cover kept falling off.
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Kind of a tradeoff between having a phone that is better sealed
It doesn't matter how well the device itself is sealed when it is contained inside a hardened waterproof case. You don't think they're just going to stick a retail phone in their pocket, do you? The lack of a swappable battery is a major strike against the iPhone that would take a lot to overcome. It comes down to safety in the field in how soldiers need to be able to do things quickly. They can't be dicking around with a charger when it's possible to just swap out a battery and be done with it. The mi
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Wow. Just wow.
Please promise me that you'll never spec or produce hardware for the military.
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Wrong, as someone else has mentioned, the charger will either take MORE space or require an available source of new electricity. IE a generator or a vehicle, or another battery and then comes the problem of actually having to leave the stupid thing plugged in. Soldiers on maneuver would not have those luxuries and being able to swap the battery becomes invaluable.
Also I have heard the opposite on the battery management... as I haven't done any testing myself, I withhold judgment on that front.
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The only thing an iphone is good for in that part of the world, is to barter for your release or something else.
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And of course you can use a charging case or external charger to refill as needed. Which takes the same space as your external battery...
Right. Why just swap a battery and be done with it when you can plug in to a really big battery and let it sit there for an hour? These soldiers don't have much to do in the field, let's not make their job too easy.
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You'd give a big, big fuck."
Not at all. See, we don't rely on cellular phones to coordinate things out in the field. That's why we carry things like the PRC-117 [wikipedia.org] or PRC-152 [harris.com] which can last for days and days out in the field. Those are the main forms of communication. When a patrol is done, the last thing we want to do if fuck around with a phone after spending 30 minutes cle
Outsourcing (Score:5, Insightful)
Not surprising to me... (Score:5, Informative)
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There was an article a while back stating that because it was cheaper in these rural third world or out of the way areas to build out cell coverage instead of rolling out and maintaining copper, that most governments were working towards that instead of building traditional pots lines.
This is why you probably had such good coverage. However, had you strayed from a village very far on a minor road, you probably would have seen quite a few outages.
As for setting up these networks for military ops, while not g
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You'll also note that new wired networks are becoming more rare. No point in seeding exchanges and laying 100's of KM of copper for DSL or even land line phones when you just set up 3G towers. In many places in the 3rd/developing world it's cheaper and easier to deploy a cellular network then it is to try to establish a landline network. Especially as quality isn't as much of a concern
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Type 1 Encryption? (Score:2)
Let me know when the devices are approved for type 1 encryption. THAT will really make them useful in the battlefield.
Carry it next to your heart (Score:2)
I'm pretty sure the deciding factor will be which on can stop a 7.62 x 39 mm round.
http://www.product-reviews.net/2007/04/10/ipod-extended-soldiers-life/ [product-reviews.net]
http://www.zolved.com/blog/view_entry/27867/iPod_saves_soldier_but_now_wont_show_up_in_iTunes_Updated [zolved.com]
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/02/blackberry-stops-a-bullet-and-saves-a-relationship/ [gizmodo.com.au]
http://blackberrysync.com/2010/02/blackberry-curve-85xx-stops-bullet-from-victims-boyfriend/ [blackberrysync.com]
http://momento24.com/en/2009/11/03/cell-phone-stops-bullet-saves-womans-life/ [momento24.com]
http [blogspot.com]
Choose your network wisely (Score:1)
"We need air support at coordin *call dropped*
I wonder if the service provider *cough at&t cough* would be liable for troops' lives.
From a soldier... (Score:3, Informative)
Short, easy answer: Android.
Long, easy answer: Android phones because they have changeable batteries, textile keyboards (keep in mind that most of us wear gloves, rendering most touch-devices useless), can be loaded on any hardware we want, supports text-based passwords instead of PINs, uses a standard USB connection, are generally cheaper, and don't look as civilian-esque as some Android phones (see Droid, Droid X).
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Ha ha ha ha, have you ever tried typing on one of those keyboards with gloves on? Do not be ridiculous. Would be easier to get a coating on your gloves to work on a touch screen, and have the app present nice big buttons, or support gestures.
Changeable battery can be good or bad, and the iPhone supports changeable batteries with an external case.
Not sure locking mechanism is that important but hey, maybe it is.
Who cares how they look?
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iOS 4 has complex password support.
Great marketing angle (Score:1)
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There's an app for that... (Score:5, Funny)
Need to look up the best way to get a Humvee out of a mud pit? There's an app for that. [ambrosiasw.com]
Need to find the nearest supply depot while avoiding roadside bombs and enemy fire? There's an app for that. [nextgov.com]
Need to see the location of every friend and foe within a 100m radius without any additional devices or infrastructure? There's an app for that. [wikia.com]
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Need to find Osama bin Laden? There's an app for that. [foursquare.com]
iphone sucks $20,480 a GB for att data and unlocki (Score:2)
iphone sucks $20,480 a GB for att data and unlocking is apple NO NO maybe the army can get apple to unlock that part and maybe let them load there own I os as well.
Wikileaks submission app? (Score:1)
iOS has the apps (Score:5, Interesting)
The good/great ballistics apps are on iOS, so I reckon it has the general edge.
http://isnipe.webdiligence.ca/ [webdiligence.ca]
http://www.knightarmco.com/bulletflight/ [knightarmco.com]
http://ballistic.zdziarski.com/ [zdziarski.com]
There are a couple for Android, but they aren't as good as iOS has.
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Existing software probably contributes approximately nothing to the decision. It's the hardware they are interested in, once the platform is decided then they can figure out how to either port existing applications or write new ones. That decision comes after the hardware decision, not before it.
an open platform matters (Score:5, Interesting)
If the military wants a device that meets certain physical specifications (ruggedness, waterproofing, shielded from EMI, bulletproof, god knows what) then they have very different options with an iPhone vs an Android phone:
With Apple's platform, they must ask Apple nicely and hope for the best. They would have to rely on a single source for the devices.
or
With Android, they can publish their specs and let any manufacturer that cares to try build a device (or contract with one or a few to specifically build something). They can have multiple sources for the hardware and switch as desired.
Similarly, if the military wants specific features in the operating system, they can:
Ask Apple nicely and hope for the best
or
Modify Android any way they'd like, or contract pretty much anyone to do this for them.
Seems Android has some pretty clear advantages.
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Or they can get a case, which is what they would do. It could have a built in battery.
This is how the use devices currently over there, for sniper assistance and such.
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I don't see how a case solves the obvious issues with using an iPhone here (or the "other problem" it's supposed to solve, for that matter).
What if the military wants it to be smaller than an iphone? Or to fit in a particular pocket of a particular uniform? What if they want a physical keyboard? What if they want a faster processor, more memory, a different type of screen, Flash support (j/k), etc, etc? What if they don't want to buy anything that can't be second sourced?
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Are you seriously arguing that Apple would ignore >$100M in government contracts so that they don't have to 'hassle' with making a military version of the iPhone?
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I think its more likely that the government simply wouldn't offer such a deal to a single company for access to their closed platform when a capable and open platform supported by a wide range of manufacturers already exists.
I don't think any amount of money is going to convince Apple to open their platform enough that it would provide the same options that Android already does.
But... if the military did make such an offer to Apple, I still am not sure they would take it. They don't really need the money,
Oh hai people! (Score:1)
Veteran's perspective (Score:1, Informative)
I served in Afghanistan. All these discussions on bullet proofing are irrelevant. Many of us carry cameras that are no where near water proof or bullet proof. We just put them in small little water tight cases on us. It wouldn't be bad for usage on a COB or FOB but out in sector it could be a security issue. (Light and noise discipline and personal sectors of fire not being watched) I pulled guard with someone who was using his phone to text and call back home in sector on our COB. His roaming charges were
I bet al queda hope for Iphone. (Score:1)
Considering the trucksized security holes in IOS i bet US enemies hold their thumbs and hope for Iphone. Imagine commandering your enemy troops through a web interface? :D
Sounds like a great defense contract (Score:2)
I am not a soldier. Not now, not never.
With that said, if I were a soldier, and could have one multi-tool digital device, it would include:
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I expect even more. (Score:1)
Tactical 3G? (Score:2)
What do they use tactical 3G networks for? Tactical tweeting?
Remote holes (Score:1)
My Prediction: (Score:2)
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Afghan soldier:
U.S. et al. is fighting alongside Afghan soldiers, not against them
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Thanks.
s/Afghan/Evil/
Man, offtopic. Fart apps people, fart apps.
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Well that clears that one up.
Tell the lad's down in logistics to stop sending bullets, apparently we aren't fighting Afghani's any more.
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