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Surface Pro 3 Has 12" Screen, Intel Inside

timothy posted about 2 months ago | from the touch-it dept.

Handhelds 316

crookedvulture (1866146) writes "Microsoft unveiled its Surface Pro 3 tablet at a press event in New York this morning. The device has a larger 12" screen with a 2160x1440 display resolution and a novel 3:2 aspect ratio. Intel Core processors provide the horsepower, starting with the Core i3 in the base model and extending all the way up to Core i7 in pricier variants. The tablet is just 9.1 mm thick, which Microsoft claims is the thinnest ever for a Core-based device. Microsoft developed a new radial fan that's suppose to distribute airflow evenly inside the chassis without generating audible noise. The tablet weights 800 g, shaving 100 g off the Surface Pro 2, and it's supposed to have longer battery life, as well. Microsoft has also rolled out new keyboard accessories, a pressure-sensitive stylus, and a docking station that supports 4K video output. The Surface Pro 3 is scheduled to be available tomorrow with prices starting at $799." Update: 05/20 17:12 GMT by T : Mary Jo Foley points out at ZDNet that one thing not announced today is an ARM-powered Mini version.

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Or... (3, Informative)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 months ago | (#47047783)

Or I can go buy a notebook for $300, keep my Nexus 7, and not shell out huge amounts of money for one big fucking tablet.

Re:Or... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47047863)

Close thread.

(THIS POST is longer than it seems)

Re:Or... (4, Informative)

CastrTroy (595695) | about 2 months ago | (#47047867)

Yeah, but then you couldn't carry your entire desktop with you wherever you want. The Surface 2 already had enough power to be a desktop replacement to all but the most demanding users. You can connect 4 monitors to the Surface Pro. Plug in a USB keyboard and mouse and most people wouldn't need another computer. If I had the cash I would definitely just buy Surface Pro and forget all about having separate desktop/laptop/tablet. I got the Surface 2 (not pro), and even that has allowed me to completely forget about my laptop and desktop unless I need to do some actual work. Surfing the web, watching videos, listening to music. I use my Surface for all of that. As far as home use goes, if I wasn't a developer, I probably wouldn't even need a "proper" computer.

Re:Or... (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47048001)

Microsoft had to develop a a power Surface or face losing the table and desktop world. Microsoft's control of the desktop is an illusion that we all believe. The minute most people realize they don't need Microsoft-specific tools to do what they do, Microsoft is sunk.

Likewise, Google and Apple have a limited window (no pun intended) of opportunity in which they can dethrone Microsoft. With the introduction of this tablet, they may have missed that opportunity. All Microsoft needs is a tablet to be "good enough."

Re:Or... (2, Interesting)

robbyb20 (651479) | about 2 months ago | (#47048649)

There are some people who actually prefer Windows(7, not 8) to everything else.

Tried Linux in early 90s, not the best experience.

Tried Mac in 2013 for 6 months, not an awesome experience. Never freed up large amounts of memory unless i did it manually, adobe products temp files took up 130gb and not intuitive to find and delete, little things like single clicking on a long file name to see the whole file from the desk top or even finder was impossible. That was important to me since my photo file names are usually pretty long(Latename - date - sequence). It didnt work for the way that "I" work so it wasnt an option. Plus, bought the MBP maxed out for 2500, couldnt sell if for more than 1300. Complete waste of money and time for me.

Tried Ubuntu on a side laptop 2 months ago and for the life of me couldnt do anything but look at the internet. To get Steam to work properly, i had to install a bunch of other libraries that werent intuitive to find. This is important for those of us that would like to use a system but out of the box, cant do it with out further additions just to get certain programs to work.

Guess where im back at? A freshly reformatted windows 7 box and no complaints from this user.

Sorry if this post seems like its directed towards you. It was mainly for the comment about people realizing they dont need microsoft specific tools and dumping them and wanted to point out that even tho I dont NEED microsoft, i still prefer them.

Re:Or... (3, Interesting)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 2 months ago | (#47048013)

Wait, wait, wait... first you assert that he's not able to carry around his "entire desktop" wherever he wants, then you go on to say:

I got the Surface 2 (not pro), and even that has allowed me to completely forget about my laptop and desktop unless I need to do some actual work

...and go on to talk about how you don't even need a computer if you didn't have that whole code-writing thing to bother with. So, well, which is it?

Meanwhile, the reason I originally wanted to say something: With VPN and RDP/SSH, I can carry around entire effing servers wherever I want when I'm traveling, and access them from my smartphone if I wanted to - so even that one argument of yours is rather moot.

(Now in my typical use case, I doodle in CG/3D artwork when I travel, and they ain't made a tablet yet that could render even a single frame w/o sucking the battery dry, so I carry around an MBP.)

Re:Or... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47048115)

>With VPN and RDP/SSH, I can carry around entire effing servers wherever I want when I'm traveling

Sure, as long as you limit your travel to be within range of Wi-Fi or cellular (and are willing to pay out the nose for cellular data rates). I guess some of us like go more out of the way places than you do.

Re:Or... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47048589)

gr8 b8 m8

Re:Or... (2)

symbolset (646467) | about 2 months ago | (#47048737)

Then there's the rest of us. As the campfire turns to embers on our Amazon trek we like to whip out a PC and do some intense architectural design way out beyond cellular range.

Re:Or... (3, Informative)

CastrTroy (595695) | about 2 months ago | (#47048123)

The Surface 2 (not pro) is the ARM version they sell for $500. The Surface 2 PRO or Surface 3 PRO are the Intel x86-64 versions which will run any standard Windows software. I have the ARM version, and even that's enough provided you are just browsing the web and doing a few other small tasks. If you get the Surface PRO which comes with an Intel x86-64 processor, you can run full Windows, and all the applications you'd normally run on Windows. You could use it as your regular computer.

Re:Or... (1)

ai4px (1244212) | about 2 months ago | (#47048143)

And most peon employee level remote access (ie blue cross blue shield) is done with Citrix, so thin clients could prevail if business would only stop to consider it.

VPN and RDP/SSH will run up a data bill (3, Informative)

tepples (727027) | about 2 months ago | (#47048183)

With VPN and RDP/SSH, I can carry around entire effing servers wherever I want when I'm traveling, and access them from my smartphone if I wanted to - so even that one argument of yours is rather moot.

Can you get service on that smartphone for $84? That's how much I pay per year (not month) for my current phone because it doesn't have a data plan attached to it. A separate laptop lets me do work while riding transit without having to pay a huge data bill for VPN and RDP/SSH. For the price of a two-year data plan in this country, I could almost buy a Surface Pro 3.

Re:VPN and RDP/SSH will run up a data bill (3, Interesting)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 2 months ago | (#47048261)

Can you get service on that smartphone for $84?

I do it for $45/mo. and that's in addition to making phone calls, receiving email, and playing games on it. Oh, and the company pays for that anyway because I receive corporate email on it too.

A separate laptop lets me do work while riding transit without having to pay a huge data bill for VPN and RDP/SSH.

True, but that was an example in extremis to prove the point that size doesn't really matter too much nowadays when it comes to mobile computing.

On whose dime (2)

tepples (727027) | about 2 months ago | (#47048499)

Can you get service on that smartphone for $84? That's how much I pay per year

I do it for $45/mo

Or $540 per year, which is $456 per year more than the voice-only service that I mentioned.

receiving email, playing games on it. Oh, and the company pays for that anyway because I receive corporate email on it too.

If your employer happens to be willing to pay the cell bill, a terminal that mostly gets web, mail, phone, and RDP might be ideal. But not everybody's employer is. Despite this, too many pundits have deluded themselves into thinking that such terminals are ideal for so many people that manufacturers should stop making affordable general-purpose computing devices with a robust offline mode. Besides, what happens to your personal mail and games when your employer decides to remotely wipe and reprovision your device?

that was an example in extremis to prove the point that size doesn't really matter too much nowadays when it comes to mobile computing.

Size matters for input. You can't type very fast or click very accurately on an RDP client running on your smartphone's 4 to 5 inch touch screen. And size also matters indirectly to the extent that device makers have traditionally been heavier-handed at enforcing lockdown on smaller devices.

Re:Or... (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 months ago | (#47048027)

Huh? My Nexus can fit inside a compartment along side my notebook, and still take up less room than this critter with keyboard and other peripherals. This product seems to solve a problem I do not have.

But if it works for you, that's great.

Re:Or... (5, Insightful)

smash (1351) | about 2 months ago | (#47048095)

Surfing the web, watching videos, listening to music: you can do all of that on an iPad 1. How is this a selling point for an $800 tablet again? The whole point of a Windows tablet (@ $800 price point) for most people is that you can use it to do actual work. If you're needing to pull out your laptop or go to your desktop for that, the device is missing the mark.

Re:Or... (3, Informative)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 months ago | (#47048193)

He said he does all that with the Surface not Pro, starting at $299.

Re:Or... (2)

Shadow99_1 (86250) | about 2 months ago | (#47048365)

I do everything from coding to writing presentations or documents and any other business related tasks on my little 9 inch 3 year old Asus Transformer Tablet. Sadly gaming is the one thing I see a lack of on my android tablet, most games require the internet to work and want to suck my wallet dry nickle and diming me. I tossed my laptop as anything other than a video playback device when I'm at home (instead of using a TV), so I can watch something while doing other tasks on my desktop... Most of which is gaming really. I don't think the Surface 3 Pro is going to redo my thinking on use cases for a tablet, the only thing it might add is gaming, but that is best with a keyboard+mouse or a controller and I may as well just use a desktop for that price instead.

Re:Or... (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 months ago | (#47048551)

Your use cases are yours and yours alone, and therefore are lacking diversity. The size is killer for artists. The aspect ratio and the ability to tilt down is perfect for students. For me, the size and weight make it even better than my Surface Pro for a UAV ground station. No other tablets adequately address users with needs like these.

Re:Or... (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 months ago | (#47048687)

"Pulling" my laptop out means just pulling it out. It means finding a flat surface if i want to do serious work, so I don't see how a Surface Pro is going to make any difference in that department. If it's just checking email, reviewing documents, spreadsheets and that kind of work, frankly i find my Nexus more than fills the role.

Ultimately I see no point to this device for the way i work. If I need a keyboard, I have my notebook, if I don't, then my tablet does the job. The price tag for this is just nutso to me.

Re:Or... (1)

farble1670 (803356) | about 2 months ago | (#47048759)

How is this a selling point for an $800 tablet again?

do you need or use a laptop?

yes? then this is a more portable replacement for your laptop that can also replace your tablet in many situations.
no? then this isn't for you, buy a cheaper tablet.

the goal of trying to reduce the total number of "computers" we own is a good one, and i'm not unhappy someone is trying to solve it.

The whole point of a Windows tablet (@ $800 price point) for most people is that you can use it to do actual work

yes, you can do actual work on this. why couldn't you? you'd probably have to purchase a USB / bluetooth keyboard + mouse though.

If you're needing to pull out your laptop or go to your desktop for that

you don't.

Re:Or... (1)

lgw (121541) | about 2 months ago | (#47048523)

What's the battery life on this like? The Surface Pro thus far has been blocked by that for me.

Re:Or... (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 months ago | (#47048653)

Surface Pro 2 lasts 6-8 hours, and they claim this one will be about 10% - 15% better.

Looks badass (2)

glrotate (300695) | about 2 months ago | (#47047787)

May have to get in line for the i7 model tomorrow.

Looks badass (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47047929)

Pre-order goes live tomorrow. Release isn't until June 20th.

"and a docking station that supports 4K video" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47047827)

4k, where those intel HD graphics will really shine...

Re:"and a docking station that supports 4K video" (2)

smash (1351) | about 2 months ago | (#47048107)

Depends what you're doing. Despite what the internets would have you believe, intel HD is fine for 4k display if you don't plan on running 3d applications.

Re:"and a docking station that supports 4K video" (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47048379)

Same experience here.
Can't speak about the mobile/ultramobile parts, but the HD4400 in a low-end desktop i3 is plenty fast enough for basic desktop compositing/video playback/... at 4k.
Now, if you don't want a slideshow in 3D games, easiest option is to just run them at 1920x1080 or 1280x720 fullscreen.
Those resolutions also happen to be HD and FullHD, and can be cleanly pixel-doubled/tripled to 3840x2160.
There's plenty benchmarks on the net for various games and haswell IGPs at HD and FullHD res.

Gaming isn't the only 3D application (2)

tepples (727027) | about 2 months ago | (#47048611)

Perhaps the difference is that "the internets" understand how many tasks are related to "running 3d applications", leading to the pejorative "Graphics My Ass" for Intel's pre-Sandy Bridge IGP [wikipedia.org] . This includes not only gaming but also things like Blender and your employer's favorite CAD program, as well as cryptocurrrency miners and other apps that use your GPU as a general-purpose vector processor [wikipedia.org] .

Resolution (5, Interesting)

Andrio (2580551) | about 2 months ago | (#47047839)

Damn it, how is it phones and tablets keep getting these awesome high-rez screens, yet it's impossible to buy a laptop with anything better than 1366 x 768 for less than 1K?

Re:Resolution (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47047901)

Good question. If only MS would add a proper keyboard to that thing and make it more like a laptop, I would buy it any day to run Debian. But no way I'm buying a oversized tablet for that price.

Re:Resolution (2)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 months ago | (#47048131)

What's not "proper" about it. They spent a good 20 minutes talking about how the new hinge and keyboard improvements make it easy to type on your lap. What else are you looking for?

Re:Resolution (3, Insightful)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 2 months ago | (#47048061)

Damn it, how is it phones and tablets keep getting these awesome high-rez screens, yet it's impossible to buy a laptop with anything better than 1366 x 768 for less than 1K?

You get what you pay for, and when a laptop OEM goes cheap, the first thing to go is screen resolution. Bite the bullet and spend a the extra dosh for a good laptop. As a bonus, it'll last a lot longer - often long enough to give you a better ROI than the 2-3 cheaper laptops you'd be buying during the same time period.

Re:Resolution (1)

Jeff Flanagan (2981883) | about 2 months ago | (#47048109)

>often long enough to give you a better ROI than the 2-3 cheaper laptops you'd be buying during the same time period.

Correct. I bought one of the very first 1080p laptops so long ago that I don't remember when I got it, and it's still running great. The only thing I've had to replace is the battery. Yes it's big by today's standards, but it works fine with current software after all these years.

Re:Resolution (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47048609)

I bought one of the very first 1080p laptops so long ago that I don't remember when I got it, and it's still running great. The only thing I've had to replace is the battery.

And I bought a laptop with higher resolution than 1080p just over 10 years ago: WUXGA 1920x1200, with 17" LCD. A few years later, 1080p or FHD became the highest resolution available, so I did not upgrade the laptop (but did upgrade its disk). BTW, its battery is still the original, and it has gone from about 2h40m to about 2h in duration. Mind you, the 2h40m was with XP, which was rapidly replaced by Linux, which is reputed to be tougher on battery life largely because the power-miser widgets are written only for Windows. This was posted from it...

Re:Resolution (2)

Andrio (2580551) | about 2 months ago | (#47048735)

I know, I'm just saying, it seems odd that you can get a tablet with a 2560-by-1600 resolution for 400 bucks [google.com] , and yet you can't even get 1080p with ~12" laptops unless you venture into the 1K+ territory. It just doesn't add up.

Re:Resolution (3, Insightful)

jkrise (535370) | about 2 months ago | (#47048755)

Microsoft seems a totally confused company at the moment. I bet more than 50% of all tablets are 7" screen size or less. The reason the iPad at about 10" is good is bcos of touch based apps for that platform.

12" is way too big for a tablet and $700 is about 3 times the ideal price point. This device will get hammered by Android tablets by the low-price customers; and anybody who can afford $700 for a tablet would close their eyes and buy the iPad which has 100 times more useful touch based apps than the Surface Pro.

The desktop OS is best navigated with a keyboard in Microsoft's opinion. The best Surface Pro apps are those designed for the desktop, such as Excel and Word.

Looks like a very confused company determined to throw another $1bn in a vain effort to get 2% marketshare in tablets. Gates or Ballmer or Nadella, nobody seems to have any clue about desktops, tablets or smartphones.

Re:Resolution (0)

Lumpy (12016) | about 2 months ago | (#47048765)

Exactly. my 2011 Quad i7 macbook pro 3 years later it's specs are the SAME as other high end laptops and I have a wonderful 1080p screen plus it's metal case has outlasted the 3 dells I had before it as it still looks new. (I bought the Dell Professional line of laptops that cost as much as Macbook pros)

2.6ghz quad i7 that "boosts up to 3.3", 16 gig of ram in it and I am going to move the Hard drive to the DVD drive bay and add a 500gb SSD here later this week to make it faster than it ever has been so it will easily last another 2-3 years.

I dont understand the guys that buy a new junk sub $1000 laptop every 2 years and complain how they cant get any decent screen resolutions. The only thing I really want in a new laptop is 8 cores and at least 32 gig of ram, I use VM's a lot and it would rock to dedicate 2 cores and 8 gig of ram to each VM that is running.

Re:Resolution (1)

larkost (79011) | about 2 months ago | (#47048129)

If you are wiling to go refub, then Apple has just the thing for you, last year's 13inch MacBookAir starting at $779, or this year's starting at $20 more:

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/macbook_air/13

Re:Resolution (1)

Tumbleweed (3706) | about 2 months ago | (#47048167)

http://www.newegg.com/All-Lapt... [newegg.com]

Perhaps you should learn how to use the filters at Newegg?

Re:Resolution (2, Interesting)

smash (1351) | about 2 months ago | (#47048205)

Because the componentry in a laptop costs more? You've typically got more ports, more storage, ram expansion, etc. And because Windows resolution independence sucks hard anyway. I'll bet they didn't show this 12" screen running any of the legacy windows apps you'll specifically want WINDOWS to run. Only windows 8 exclusive stuff...

Hitting win32 application widgets on 10" @ 1920x1080 on a surface 2 is bad enough. 2560x1440 on 12" will be even worse.

Re:Resolution (2)

LordLimecat (1103839) | about 2 months ago | (#47048213)

Because you can break a single high-rez panel down into multiple smaller screens, but cannot stitch smaller panels up into a larger one? Manufacturing creates defects, and the larger the screen the greater the waste if a screen has a defect.

Re:Resolution (1)

SirMasterboy (872152) | about 2 months ago | (#47048299)

Don't worry. Retina MacBook Air is coming.

Re:Resolution (2)

jandrese (485) | about 2 months ago | (#47048567)

It's worse than that. This thing has a 3:2 screen. You know how many people would buy a laptop with a 3:2 screen and this many pixels? A lot. But laptop manufacturers are so in freaking love with widescreen now that it's just not going to happen. It's so frustrating. I've been on the hunt for a new laptop for a year and a half now, and nothing fits my needs. I'm not even asking for super low cost here. A $1000 or $1200 laptop would be totally fine, but manufacturers treat these tablet level displays as $2000 premium parts for some reason.

Problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47047859)

it runs some microsoft operating system

Re:Problem (0, Troll)

Timothy Hartman (2905293) | about 2 months ago | (#47048101)

It doesn't just run any Mico$oft O$. It runs the latest greatest Windows 8.1 which we all know isn't nearly as bad as Windows Vista 2013 Edition.

interesting.... (3, Interesting)

smash (1351) | about 2 months ago | (#47047869)

... good to see that others have finally followed apple's lead (and google's with the chromebook) and realised that 16x9 isn't the be all and end all, and closer-to-square aspect can actually fit more content. It's not just about movies.

Pricing is reasonable, still totally NOT sold on the kick-stand idea, have run a surface 2 for a week and did not like. Would much prefer the ability to run it like an ipad with a touch cover on a desk, rather than vertical like a pc monitor or laptop.

That said, i think the biggest bugbear is going to be Windows 8. It doesn't work very well with touch either. Yes, as I said above I've run a surface 2 for a week and did not like. Will be interesting to see whether it can have other OSes loaded onto it, but really the other other available tablet OS with software support is android. And if you're going down that path you're competing with some very cheap hardware.

Re:interesting.... (1)

QuietLagoon (813062) | about 2 months ago | (#47047997)

... i think the biggest bugbear is going to be Windows 8....

Agreed. Windows 8 is going to be a strategic problem for Microsoft going forward. The reputation of Windows 8 is so soiled presently, that I doubt it is going to be an easy sell, even on touch screens.

Re:interesting.... (5, Insightful)

smash (1351) | about 2 months ago | (#47048075)

After using a surface pro 2 for a week, i reckon Windows 8 actually works better with mouse and keyboard than touch by a long shot. The problem is the apps. There aren't any for touch that actually do anything productive. Shitty little app store type stuff isn't the reason I'm going to buy a Windows tablet. I'm going to buy a windows tablet because i want to do business stuff on an AD domain. If i wanted to run mobile app type stuff i'd just buy an iPad or Android tablet for half the price.

Re:interesting.... (0, Troll)

Casca (4032) | about 2 months ago | (#47048259)

Just a "me too" comment. Windows 8 blows. Tried to set up a new laptop for my wife, start menu replacement was the first thing that had to go on there. Active homescreen is super cool to look at for as long as it takes to try to use the laptop for anything.

Re:interesting.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47048319)

Thanks for adding your comment that doesn't say anything at all. Would have enjoy to have the time back I spent reading it.

Re:interesting.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47048607)

Exactly how long did it take you to read "Just a "me too" comment." and then ignore it?

Re:interesting.... (2)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 2 months ago | (#47048089)

That said, i think the biggest bugbear is going to be Windows 8. It doesn't work very well with touch either.

True, but according to the commercials it'll turn you into one very badassed break-dancer/parkour/contortionist with awesome jazz hands...

Re:interesting.... (3, Insightful)

Overzeetop (214511) | about 2 months ago | (#47048125)

The problem with touch is that it's not really thought out by the software makers. There are exceptions. Bluebeam makes a PDF program for professionals that lets you edit and annotate. On a digitizer Win8 tablet, like this or my Sony Flip, fingers are used to zoom and pan, while the digitizer is used for writing on the screen. There's never a mixup between the two like occurs with an iPad, where even the best BT-linked styli are hit and miss (and still only work properly in special "aware" apps).

The biggest downside to W8 is the lack of ability to go all-fingers when you want to, but that would require touch-optimized apps for nearly everything, and the vendors just aren't feeling the need to go there.

Re:interesting.... (4, Insightful)

ai4px (1244212) | about 2 months ago | (#47048195)

I used a surface pro for all of about 2 hours and returned it to the store. I was lined up to pay >$900 for a surface pro that didn't come with a keyboard. The touch screen in win8 isn't even smart enough to pop up an on screen keyboard when I touch a blank to type. I have to make the keyboard pop up, then move the screen around to see what I'm typing if the kb covers it up. Amazingly unintuitive. Couple this with a GUI that keeps funneling me into the puzzle pieces view... and trying to find apps that are not organized in alphabetical order..... again, amazingly unintuitive. Now they tell us it has a 3:2 aspect ratio? WhoTF is making these decisions?

Re:interesting.... (3, Informative)

smash (1351) | about 2 months ago | (#47048349)

Yup. those were the problems i noticed too - erratic touch keyboard behavior, unusable win32 application widgets at 1920x1080 on a 10" screen, etc. The 3:2 aspect is a plus though for a table tin my opinion - 16x9 form factor tablet just feel awkward and unwieldy - it isn't tall enough when used in landscape mode and isn't wide enough and feels too tall when used in portrait. 3:2 or 4:3 is a much better compromise for something that feels good to hold and has decent screen area.

The surface I used was an extended evaluation unit for work. I could have kept it for work use for "free" (work paid), but gave it back and went back to the ipad (primary work uses being VMware View, ssh, mail, etc.).

Re:interesting.... (2)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 months ago | (#47048239)

That said, i think the biggest bugbear is going to be Windows 8. It doesn't work very well with touch either. Yes, as I said above I've run a surface 2 for a week and did not like.

How does it not work well with touch? You've used for a week, but I've got 2 years of experience using it on touch and it works fine. Care to cite any examples you encountered?

Re:interesting.... (2)

smash (1351) | about 2 months ago | (#47048431)

All of the windows apps I want Windows for are win32 and the widgets are un-usably small on 1920x1080 on a 10" screen. Try using Outlook 2010 for example.

The on screen keyboard pops up sometimes, sometimes does not, somtimes covers the win32 application I am trying to use.

The metro side of Windows 8 is good enough for touch, but the fact is that very few people want a windows tablet in order to run the apps available in the Metro UI. They want to run office and other enterprise apps. And currently there's no touch version of office, and the vast majority of the enterprise apps are Win32.

if microsoft at least implemented unpinch to zoom when in the desktop, things would be a lot better. But they didn't. I do get unpinch to zoom on an iPad running a windows desktop via VMware View.

Ironically - if you want to run Win32 applications on a tablet, the best touch-friendly experience is currently View running on an iPad.

Microsoft missed the boat massively on that. Microsoft: if you are listening - ADD THE ABILITY TO ZOOM INTO THE CLASSIC DESKTOP

Re:interesting.... (1)

smash (1351) | about 2 months ago | (#47048465)

Also: I've been running Windows 8 on various things since release as well. Many touch enabled laptops, tablets, etc. The Surface 2 in particular I had for a week (and mentioned that as basis for comparison as we're talking about the surface 3 here), but I've also evaluated HP elitepads, touch enabled elitebooks, Lenovo Helix (my favorite Windows tablet so far), Samsung Windows based tablet, Panasonic Toughpad, etc, etc.

Re:interesting.... (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 months ago | (#47048625)

So your argument is that applications not built for touch are hard to use on touch. Makes enough sense. But with a reasonable DPI setting and the pen I find working with the desktop and Win32 apps is easy enough. I still want to do heavy keyboard input with an actual keyboard, but running my Surface Pro as a UAV ground station using a non-touch optimized app is easy and better than using a laptop.

Magnifier in Windows 8 (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 months ago | (#47048689)

Microsoft: if you are listening - ADD THE ABILITY TO ZOOM INTO THE CLASSIC DESKTOP

Consider it done [microsoft.com] . Win-+ to open Magnifier, Win-Esc to close.

Re:interesting.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47048471)

Office. Touch enabled coming any day now. But not today.

Re:interesting.... (1)

smash (1351) | about 2 months ago | (#47048511)

It should have been out 2-5 years ago (Windows 7 was originally touted as being touch friendly also, prior to release).

Re:interesting.... (0)

NatasRevol (731260) | about 2 months ago | (#47048491)

Pricing is reasonable?

You're going to freak when you compare it to a MacBook Air, which is $1-200 depending on model.

Re:interesting.... (1)

smash (1351) | about 2 months ago | (#47048651)

I'm well aware of the macbook pricing, i own one. I said reasonable because it is in the ballpark for a high-res screen, 12" form factor and core i series CPU. I consider reasonable to be within say 10-15% either way. The Surface runs Windows natively so if you need windows that is a plus the Macbook does not have going for it. A windows license is extra. Surface RT, now that pricing was taking the piss. No native win32, inferior hardware to ipad, more expensive...

Re:interesting.... (0, Troll)

NatasRevol (731260) | about 2 months ago | (#47048731)

Well, cherry picking numbers here, but:

SurfacePro3 - Intel® Core i5, 128 GB and 4 GB of RAM - $999
Extra - Surface Pro Type Cover $129.99
Total - $1128

MacBook Air - Intel® Core i5, 128 GB and 4 GB of RAM - $899
Keyboard included

$899 vs $1128 is 25% more.

Larger 12" (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47047911)

using big values of inch

$299 and I'm in... (2)

theodp (442580) | about 2 months ago | (#47047919)

...fuggedaboutit @$799

Re:$299 and I'm in... (3, Informative)

smash (1351) | about 2 months ago | (#47048055)

You do realize you're getting a full blown intel core CPU here. This isn't in the same league as some cheap low power ARM cpu, it's much more powerful. You could realistically use one as a desktop replacement.

And Never A Linux Port (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47047947)

Don't forget this thing is all locked down at the BIOS (UEFI) level preventing bootloaders that microsoft does not like from working. So it is pretty hard to make it a linux tablet.

This is x86, not ARM (4, Informative)

tepples (727027) | about 2 months ago | (#47048141)

Don't forget this thing is all locked down at the BIOS (UEFI) level

How so? As I understand it, the rule with Windows 8 is that on ARM, the manufacturer MUST NOT allow the end user to modify Secure Boot, but on x86, it MUST. This product is x86 according to the summary

Re:And Never A Linux Port (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47048289)

This is x86, not ARM, so it's actually as open as any other PC and for example less locked down than most ChromeBooks.

Can we install linux on it ? (0)

Denis Bergeron (2884689) | about 2 months ago | (#47047985)

That's the only very question I ask Can be a real nive thing to have with a real tablet OS.

Re:Can we install linux on it ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47048083)

No but it comes with a spell checker.

Re: Can we install linux on it ? (4, Informative)

Myria (562655) | about 2 months ago | (#47048483)

The Surface Pro, like any other x86 PC that comes preinstalled with an OEM version of Windows 8/8.1, is locked down with Secure Boot UEFI. However, Microsoft follows its own rules--the Surface Pro also meets their own requirement that the BIOS allows you to disable Secure Boot given physical access.

Also, I believe that the Surface Pro's preconfigured UEFI Secure Boot NVRAM contains the Microsoft "Third Party Marketplace" UEFI certificate, which if true would mean that the Surface Pro would out-of-the-box recognize, as an example, the Secure Boot-compatible GRUB2 on the 14.x x86-64 Ubuntu disks as legitimate. I don't have a Surface Pro to check this, however.

Drat! Still only 8GB RAM max. (4, Interesting)

Doofus (43075) | about 2 months ago | (#47048041)

Specs and prices are available in this file: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2014/may14/05-20surfacepr.aspx [microsoft.com] .

Unfortunately at no price point will they go above 8GB RAM.

I'll pay more for 16GB RAM! I guarantee other people are out there waiting for the 16GB model. Please MSFT, manufacture a 16GB RAM model.

Re:Drat! Still only 8GB RAM max. (2)

Doofus (43075) | about 2 months ago | (#47048071)

Posted the wrong link.

Spec file here [microsoft.com] .

Re:Drat! Still only 8GB RAM max. (3, Insightful)

Jeff Flanagan (2981883) | about 2 months ago | (#47048137)

A tablet may not be the best place to run virtual machines or servers, and nothing else really requires more than 8GB of RAM. Win 8 will run very well with 8GB.

Re:Drat! Still only 8GB RAM max. (1)

smash (1351) | about 2 months ago | (#47048537)

Pretty much that. 8 GB is enough to run a couple of VMs anyway - but if you want to run much more than that you'll likely run out of storage, kill your battery, etc. Get a server, and just use the tablet for what it is good at - displaying content processed elsewhere on the network.

Factor in the price of a data plan (2)

tepples (727027) | about 2 months ago | (#47048721)

Get a server, and just use the tablet for what it is good at - displaying content processed elsewhere on the network.

Then the question becomes how much you want to pay a cellular carrier per month to move data between where you process it and where you view it. I explain further in my other comment [slashdot.org] .

Re:Drat! Still only 8GB RAM max. (2)

period3 (94751) | about 2 months ago | (#47048601)

A tablet may not be the best place to run virtual machines or servers, and nothing else really requires more than 8GB of RAM. Win 8 will run very well with 8GB.

Really? Virtualization and servers are the only applications you can think of that could possibly benefit from more than 8GB of memory?

Re:Drat! Still only 8GB RAM max. (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47048177)

Copypasta:

Technical specs
Operating system
  - Windows 8.1 Pro
Exterior: Dimensions
  - 7.93 in x 11.5 in x 0.36 in
- Weight: 1.76 lbs
- Casing: Magnesium
- Color: Silver
- Physical buttons: Volume, Power, Home
Storage
  - 64 GB, 128 GB, 256 GB, 512 GB
Display
  - Screen: 12-inch ClearType Full HD display
- Resolution: 2160 x 1440
- Aspect Ratio: 3:2
- Touch: Multitouch input
Pen input
- Pen input and pen (included with purchase)
- Pen features 256 levels of pressure sensitivity
CPU
- 4th-generation Intel® Core i5-4300U (1.6 GHz with Intel® Turbo Boost up to 2.90 GHz) with Intel® HD Graphics 4400
- 4 GB or 8 GB of RAM — dual-channel LPDDR3
- TPM 2.0 (Trusted Platform Module — for BitLocker encryption)
-
- 4th-generation Intel® Core i3/i5/i7 Processor
- System memory: 4GB or 8GB memory options
- TPM 2.0 chip for enterprise security
Wireless
- Wireless: Wi-Fi 802.11ac/802.11 a/b/g/n
- Bluetooth 4.0 low energy technology
Battery
- Up to nine hours of Web-browsing battery life
Cameras and A/V
- 5MP and 1080p HD front- and rear-facing cameras
- Built-in front- and rear-facing microphones
- Stereo speakers with Dolby® Audio-enhanced sound
Ports
- Full-size USB 3.0
- microSD card reader
- Headset jack
- Mini DisplayPort
- Cover port
- Charging port
Sensors
- Ambient light sensor
- Accelerometer
- Gyroscope
- Magnetometer
Power supply
- 36W power supply (including 5W USB for accessory charging)
Warranty
- One-year limited hardware warranty

Pricing
Intel® Core i3, 64 GB and 4 GB of RAM $799
Intel® Core i5, 128 GB and 4 GB of RAM $999
Intel® Core i5, 256 GB and 8 GB of RAM $1,299
Intel® Core i7, 256 GB and 8 GB of RAM $1,549
Intel® Core i7, 512 GB and 8 GB of RAM $1,949
Surface Pro Type Cover $129.99
Additional Surface Pen $49.99
Additional 36W Power Supply $79.99
Additional Pen Loop $4.99
Docking Station for Surface Pro 3 $199.99
Surface Ethernet Adapter $39.99

Re:Drat! Still only 8GB RAM max. (0)

NatasRevol (731260) | about 2 months ago | (#47048427)

Macbook Air w Core i5, 256GB disk, 8GB ram, keyboard - $1,199

$100 cheaper than an equivalent Surface 3.

LOL.

Re:Drat! Still only 8GB RAM max. (1)

smash (1351) | about 2 months ago | (#47048563)

And comes with OS X instead of Windows 8.

Re:Drat! Still only 8GB RAM max. (1)

period3 (94751) | about 2 months ago | (#47048617)

and inferior resolution and weight.

depends what you want.

Re:Drat! Still only 8GB RAM max. (2)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 months ago | (#47048757)

"equivalent" Surface 3. Surface 3 has a touch screen, active digitizer, and is lighter and thinner with a larger display and more resolution. Hard to really enjoy that 1366 × 768 display compared to 2160 x 1440 on the Surface 3. I'll take all of the above $100 more, thanks.

A decent machine (2)

FrodoOfTheShire (3459835) | about 2 months ago | (#47048121)

I already own an Acer Iconia 11.3 in tablet with Core I5 chip, which I bought to view Google Play magazines that didn't display well on my Nexus 7. The Iconia tablet turned out to be a fantastic tablet that I'm very happy with. The new Surface Pro 3 seems very appealing to me as well, and has great specs. My only problem is that when you go from the 64GB model to the 128GB model they charge an extra 200 dollars. A 128GB SSD drive goes for about 100 dollars, so we are talking about a 50 dollar increase in parts that they are charging 200 dollars for. I'd want the 128GB version of the tablet, but I won't buy it when they are gaming the prices like that. I just hope the competition starts putting out more large form windows 8 tablets that are reasonably priced.

Re:A decent machine (4, Interesting)

pushing-robot (1037830) | about 2 months ago | (#47048519)

Yeah, comparing this to "the Apple tax" on their similarly-specced MacBook Air:

i5-i7:
Apple $150
Microsoft $250

4GB-8GB RAM:
Apple $100
Microsoft $100*

128-256GB SSD:
Apple $200
Microsoft $200*

(*MS combines these into one upgrade)

256-512GB SSD:
Apple $300
Microsoft $400

It's pretty bad when Apple's upgrade prices look reasonable by comparison.

Broadwe!! WAIT FOR IT !! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47048227)

Or you'll be sahhhhhhhhhhhreeeee !!

Haswell is a hasbeen !!

4k then and ONLY THEN !!

fan (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47048235)

"Microsoft developed a new radial fan that's suppose to distribute airflow evenly inside the chassis without generating audible noise."

      I read an article about a new fan/heatsink design(air bearings, rotating fin surface) coming out of MIT/whatever about a year ago but haven't heard a peep since. Guess now we know where it went.

celle

another thing not announced (1)

Threni (635302) | about 2 months ago | (#47048333)

Is a tablet that's got a chance in hell of taking on Android or iOS.

Re:another thing not announced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47048569)

They don't have to. Instead of carrying around a tablet for fun and a laptop for work, now people can have just a single device to carry around. If you don't see why that would be attractive, get a real job.

Re:another thing not announced (0)

smash (1351) | about 2 months ago | (#47048665)

Thats the theory. In reality (and yes, I've tried it both ways), assuming you have network connectivity, VMWare View on an iPad kicks the shit out of trying to run win32 applications natively on a Surface Pro. Because you can zoom.

Why not a good ultra-book and a smaller tablet? (1)

Gestahl (64158) | about 2 months ago | (#47048445)

This seems like it's comparably priced with the X1 Carbon Touch... a good system will run you around $1700 for either option. The main difference is display... the bigger X1 sacrifices resolution. It just seems really expensive for a tablet, and really tiny for a laptop for serious work, it's like it's in an anti-Goldilocks zone.

I'd use this only if I had an awesome docking rig, and really needed a tablet, *and* I needed to be able to swap between the two seamlessly.

Re:Why not a good ultra-book and a smaller tablet? (2)

smash (1351) | about 2 months ago | (#47048591)

Why? Because if you go on a trip, you don't want to be carrying around 2 sets of cables, chargers, etc. You'll have to sync data between devices, two data plans (unless you tether one to the other, which is a crap way of working also). The whole selling point of the device is that you can do away with all that crap. The convenience over 3 years of ownership is surely worth a few hundred bucks if it comes down to price.

Calling... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47048461)

But can I make a phone call on it? Seriously, I'd consider replacing my general desktop, laptop, tablet and phone if I could make phone calls and texts on this. That would leave me with the true 'workstation' and this tablet.

Re:Calling... (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 months ago | (#47048767)

But can I make a phone call on it?

I imagine that Microsoft would make an effort to make Skype work well on a Microsoft tablet.

New MS hardware product (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47048535)

I'm totally excited about this new product, MS keeps digging its own grave

Dear Microsoft..... (-1, Flamebait)

Lumpy (12016) | about 2 months ago | (#47048697)

Stop with this tablet crap, nobody wants it.

What do we want? the REAL surface.

Give us a 40" desk surface like you guys demonstrated over 5 years ago.

Stop trying to compete where you already lost before you even started, grab onto the market that you own most of the patents for and there is NO competition in right now and run with it.

and yes, there IS a market for $2500 price point for a 37 - 42" coffee table size real surface device. If people are buying $800 ipads in droves, then something like a real surface table will sell for a higher price point.

Better resolution on laptops please. (1)

ardmhacha (192482) | about 2 months ago | (#47048699)

" The device has a larger 12" screen with a 2160x1440 display resolution and a novel 3:2 aspect ratio."

and yet a typical 15" laptop can only squeeze in 1366 x 768 resolution

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